Chetan Ahya: Can China Avoid a Lost Decade?

Chetan Ahya: Can China Avoid a Lost Decade?

Although China’s economy faces challenges in terms of debt, demographics and deflation, the right policy approach could ward off a debt deflation loop.


----- Transcript -----

Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Chetan Ahya, Morgan Stanley's Chief Asia Economist. Along with my colleagues, bringing you a variety of perspectives, today I'll be discussing the journey ahead for China as it faces the triple challenge of debt, demographics and deflation. It's Thursday, August 17, at 9 a.m. in Hong Kong.


Before we get into China, I want to take you back to the oft-told tale from the 1990s when Japan experienced what we now refer to as the ‘Lost Decade.’ During this period, the combination of economic stagnation and price deflation transformed a bustling economy in the 1980s, into an economy that grew at a little more than 1% annually over a decade.


Fast forward to today, where China is confronted with the triple challenge of debt, demographics and deflation, what we are calling the 3Ds. As a result, many investors are now concerned that China will be stuck in a debt deflation loop, just like Japan was in the 1990s.


But is China better placed to manage these headwinds even though the risks of falling into debt deflation loop remain high? We think at the starting point, the answer is yes, but with a few historical lessons that I'll get into in a moment.


For context, China compares better with the Japan of the 1990s in the following four aspects. First, asset prices in China have not run up as much. Second, per capita incomes are still lower in China, implying a higher potential growth runway. Third, unlike Japan, China has not experienced a big currency appreciation shock.


And finally, perhaps the most crucial difference is policy setting. Back in the 90s, the Bank of Japan kept real interest rates higher than real GDP growth between 1991 and 1995. But in contrast to Japan, China's real rates are below real GDP growth currently.


To explain, historically, when economies are seeking to stabilize or reduce debt, the key element is to ensure that there is adequate gap between real interest rates and real GDP growth. In Japan's case, real interest rates were maintained about real GDP growth for the first four years. A similar situation occurred in the US post the 1929 stock market crash. As real rates were kept high, it laid the ground for the beginnings of the Great Depression.


From both of these examples, the historical track shows two policy missteps. First, policymakers' concern about reigniting misallocation leads them to gravitate towards a hawkish bias. Second, policymakers tend to turn hawkish too quickly at the first signs of a recovery. During the Great Depression, easing of policies had led to recovery from 1933 onwards, but a premature tightening of policies in 1936 led to the double dip in 1937/38. Contrast this with the US after 2008, when the Fed was quick to bring rates to zero and embark on successive rounds of quantitative easing while fiscal policy was deployed in tandem.


Sustaining real interest rates 2 percentage points below real GDP growth is key to deleveraging. Why? Because if you think about it, deleveraging will not be possible if the interest rate on your debt is growing faster than the increase in your income.


In this context, while China's real interest rates are below real GDP growth currently, we still see the risk that policymakers will not take up reflationary policies to sustain the rates minus growth gap, which keeps the risk of China falling into debt deflation loop alive.


So what is the potential outcome? China's policymakers will need to act forcefully. If they don't, the economy could fall into debt deflation loop, persistent deflation would take hold, debt to GDP would keep rising, and GDP per capita in USD terms would stagnate, just as it happened in Japan in the 1990s. But, as history has shown us, that doesn't have to be the outcome.


Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or a colleague today.

Episoder(1515)

Michael Zezas: Could Cash-Strapped States Bank on Online Gaming?

Michael Zezas: Could Cash-Strapped States Bank on Online Gaming?

As U.S. states cope with challenged finances due to the coronavirus, could some look to online gaming to fill budget gaps?

27 Mai 20201min

Mike Wilson: 3 Reasons Why a 2020 Recovery May Be Different

Mike Wilson: 3 Reasons Why a 2020 Recovery May Be Different

Although the coronavirus recession shares traits with the 2008 financial crisis and other recessions, the rate and sustainability of a recovery could be quite different this cycle.

26 Mai 20203min

Special Episode: All Hail the U.S. Consumer

Special Episode: All Hail the U.S. Consumer

Will pent-up demand from U.S. consumers help drive a recovery from the coronavirus recession? A special conversation with our Chief Investment Officer and Chief U.S. Economist.

22 Mai 20206min

Andrew Sheets: The Case for the Return of Inflation

Andrew Sheets: The Case for the Return of Inflation

Why would inflation rise since the current recession means an acute shortage of demand for goods and services? Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets explains.

21 Mai 20203min

Michael Zezas: The Mechanics of Fiscal Stimulus

Michael Zezas: The Mechanics of Fiscal Stimulus

Congress is weighing another round of fiscal stimulus, possibly by July. But the dynamics of passage in an election year could mean a narrow window to take action.

20 Mai 20202min

Mike Wilson: Financial Repression Is Alive and Well

Mike Wilson: Financial Repression Is Alive and Well

Current stock market price patterns look surprisingly similar to 2009 and the global financial crisis. The big difference for investors may be the knock-on effect of low interest rates.

18 Mai 20204min

Andrew Sheets: Are Negative Interest Rates Coming to the U.S. and UK?

Andrew Sheets: Are Negative Interest Rates Coming to the U.S. and UK?

As markets have begun to price expectations for negative rates in Britain and the U.S., Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets breaks down the potential impact on consumers, savers and economic growth.

15 Mai 20203min

Special Episode: Lessons and Limits of China’s Recovery

Special Episode: Lessons and Limits of China’s Recovery

What China’s rebound from COVID-19 can—and can’t—tell us about the path, speed and pitfalls of economic reopening for other countries. Chief China Economist Robin Xing and Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets look at the data, lessons so far, and how the country has had to modify its crisis playbook.

14 Mai 20209min

Populært innen Business og økonomi

stopp-verden
dine-penger-pengeradet
lydartikler-fra-aftenposten
e24-podden
rss-penger-polser-og-politikk
rss-borsmorgen-okonominyhetene
finansredaksjonen
rss-vass-knepp-show
livet-pa-veien-med-jan-erik-larssen
pengepodden-2
tid-er-penger-en-podcast-med-peter-warren
morgenkaffen-med-finansavisen
okonomiamatorene
utbytte
rss-markedspuls-2
lederpodden
rss-sunn-okonomi
rss-fri-kontantstrom
rss-impressions-2
aksjepodden