What Next | Is Trump Running the Fugitive Slave Act Playbook?

Hosts Alex Kirshner, Lindsay Gibbs, and Ben Lindbergh break down Rory McIlroy’s thrilling victory at the Masters on Sunday. Also on the show: a preview of the NBA playoffs, and an in-depth look at quarterback Nico Iamaleava’s messy split from the University of Tennessee. For Afterballs, Ben shares the introduction to his new narrative podcast, “Ella Black: Lost and Found,” the story of the first woman to write about baseball for a national publication, and how she disappeared mysteriously. On the bonus episode available exclusively for Slate Plus members, the panel discusses WNBA draft candidate Sedona Prince and the recent sexual assault allegations surrounding her. McIlroy (3:57): Completes a grand slam. NBA playoffs (20:44): Who will emerge in the West and can anyone topple the Celtics? Nico Iamaleava (36:16): The nasty school-player divorce. Afterballs (54:08): Ben previews his new show on a forgotten figure from baseball’s past. (Note: time codes are only accurate for Slate Plus members, who listen ad-free.) Want more Hang Up and Listen? Subscribe to Slate Plus to immediately unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page, or visit slate.com/hangupplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

14 Apr 1h 11min

Despite what Trump said on the campaign trail, his administration seems to be working right out of Project 2025, where the first goal is to “Restore the family as the centerpiece of American life—and protect our children.” What does this mean in action? It starts with a very specific type of “family.” Guest: David Graham, Atlantic staff writer and author of the forthcoming book, The Project: How Project 2025 Is Reshaping America. Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your  other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

14 Apr 27min

TikTok was on the verge of being sold to a non-Chinese company when Trump rolled out his new tariff plans. Now everything is thrown into uncertainty and the company has until mid-June to find another buyer—or be banned in the United States. Guest: Sapna Maheshwari, New York Times reporter covering TikTok, technology and emerging media companies. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

13 Apr 22min

This week: Trump’s erratic tariff policies are creating a lot of volatility in the markets. Felix Salmon, Emily Peck, and Elizabeth Spiers are joined by investments expert Barry Ritholtz to unpack the week’s wild tariff news and this uniquely unpredictable situation where one person’s decisions are having a huge effect on the markets. Then, Barry helps the hosts understand investing in this environment with lessons from his new book ‘How Not To Invest’. In the Slate Plus episode: The trouble with leaf blowers.  Want to hear that discussion and hear more Slate Money? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Slate Money show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/moneyplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Jessamine Molli and Cheyna Roth. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

12 Apr 1h 2min

On this week’s Amicus, autocratic creep in high and low gear. In high gear: The Supreme Court finally issued its order in Kilmar Abrego Garcia’s case, requiring that the government “facilitates” Abrego Garcia’s return from the El Salvadoran prison to which he was illegally and accidentally reditioned, but also recognizing the limits on its authority to direct the executive branch. Dahlia Lithwick talks to Slate senior writer  Mark Joseph Stern about the ways in which the High Court’s attempts to avoid a showdown with the Trump administration may be futile. Next, Dahlia turns to the autocratic creep in low gear that is President Trump’s buyout of Big Law.  Jessie Weber, managing partner at Brown Goldstein and Levy, shares her view from a firm that has no intention of capitulating government bullying.  Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

12 Apr 59min

The same day  Nintendo was officially introducing its latest console, Donald Trump was announcing his new global tariff plan. As a result, gamers were treated to an early preview of what a world bound up in tariffs would look like. Spoiler: It’ll probably cost you a lot more. Guest: Jason Koebler, a co-founder of 404 Media Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Evan Campbell and Patrick Fort. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

11 Apr 24min

This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss the self-inflicted chaos of Trump’s tariffs and an escalating trade war with China; the Supreme Court’s careful responses to deportations without due process which leave key questions unanswered; and the brazen attempted heist of a North Carolina Supreme Court seat by Republicans. Emily: Adam Cancryn and Maggie Miller for Politico: Trump orders investigation of two first-term administration aides who criticized him John: Blue Mass (Wikipedia); National Museum of American History: Blue Mass Compound, Sugar-coated Pills; Wallace B. Mendelson for Psychology Today: Heavy Metal Blues: The History of Medicinal Mercury; Everything Is Tuberculosis by John Green; Alka Agrawal for Science: All the President’s Pills. David: Sage McHugh for The Spruce: The 7 Best Moth Repellents the Spruce Has Tested; Sophie Yarin for The Brink: Pioneering Research from Boston University: Elevating the Clothes-Eating Moth from Pest to Evolutionary Marvel; Chris Obenschain for HowStuffWorks: What To Do If You Inherit An Old Car Listener chatter from Tim in Solana Beach, California: Jack Dolan for the L.A. Times: As baby great whites cruise among California surfers, science finds (almost) nothing to fear; Video (3:15), L.A. Times on YouTube For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss favorite artworks they turn to for solace and perspective when chaos and tumult dominates the news. In the latest Gabfest Reads, David talks with author Adam Higginbotham about his new book, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space. Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.) Podcast production by Kevin Bendis Research by Emily Ditto Want more Political Gabfest? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or visit slate.com/gabfestplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

10 Apr 59min

Thousands of “Hands Off!” protestors took to the street over the weekend. While it’s clear they were marching against the actions of Elon Musk and President Donald Trump, what would “hands off” look like? If it’s removing these guys from office, why not tell the people with the power to do it? Guest: Gabe Garbowit, former Senate staffer, current organizer at citizensimpeachment.com Want more What Next? Join Slate Plus to unlock full, ad-free access to What Next and all your  other favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

10 Apr 26min