Customers Don't Want to be Sold, They Want You to Help Them Buy: Salespeople's Role in Value Co-Creation with Duane Dufault

Whether you've been with us since the beginning or you just discovered Impact Pricing last week, this episode is for you. If you're one of our longtime listeners, you know Mark's voice, you've heard his insights, and maybe you've even implemented some of his strategies in your own business. But have you ever wondered what drives him to keep showing up week after week, year after year? If you're new here, welcome. You're about to meet the person behind the podcast—not just as a pricing expert, but as someone who genuinely loves teaching and believes that understanding value can transform your business and your career. Mark Stiving is the host of Impact Pricing and founder of Impact Pricing LLC. But before he was a pricing expert, he was a teacher—of scuba diving, kayaking, and marketing. That passion for helping people learn never left him. Even after retiring in 2019, Mark couldn't stop sharing what he knows about pricing and value. In this heartfelt solo episode, Mark pulls back the curtain on his journey. He shares why he chose to dedicate his post-retirement life to pricing education, what keeps him energized after blogging every week since 2010, and the two critical topics that consume his attention right now. This isn't just another pricing lesson—it's an invitation to understand the "why" behind everything we do here at Impact Pricing. For our loyal listeners: Thank you for being part of this community. This episode is Mark's way of reconnecting with you and reaffirming his commitment to your success. For our new listeners: This is the perfect place to start. You'll understand not just what we teach, but why it matters so deeply to the person teaching it.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Discover why teaching and sharing pricing knowledge became Mark's post-retirement mission and driving passion. Learn about the two critical topics dominating modern pricing strategy: AI pricing and context-driven pricing. Understand how value impacts decisions across sales, marketing, product development, and packaging—not just pricing.   "Probably my single most favorite thing is when I share something with someone and it has an impact on their life. I absolutely love that." - Mark Stiving   Topics Covered: 00:30 - Mark's Retirement and Continued Mission. Why Mark retired in 2019 but couldn't stop sharing pricing knowledge, and how his blogging streak since 2010 kept him connected to his passion. 01:15 - The Joy of Teaching. Mark's history as an instructor across multiple disciplines—from scuba diving and kayaking to university-level marketing—and why teaching is his core passion. 02:00 - The Pricing Knowledge Gap. Why pricing and value are critical business topics that remain poorly understood, and Mark's mission to change that. 02:45 - Working with Different Organizations. How Mark's work differs between large enterprises (focusing on sales teams) versus small and mid-sized businesses (focusing on executive teams). 03:30 - Two Current Focus Areas. Deep dive into Mark's concentration on AI pricing and context-driven pricing, including the concept of value architecture. 04:45 - Context-Driven Pricing Framework. How buying contexts differ for every purchase and how companies can structure their product portfolios to deliver and capture more value.   Key Takeaways: "Pricing and value are such important topics in all of business and so few people understand it. And that's almost my mission now is just to see how many people I can get to have a better understanding." - Mark Stiving "All buying is contextual. Every purchase that's made is made in a different way than any other purchase has ever been made." - Mark Stiving "When we start thinking through context-driven pricing, that drives me to something I call a value architecture, which is how do you structure the way you think, the way you built your product portfolio, the way you have packaged your greatest features?" - Mark Stiving   Resources Mentioned: Impact Pricing Blog (since 2010): https://impactpricing.com/blog/ Mark's Substack newsletter Impact Pricing monthly newsletter   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com Website: https://impactpricing.com

6 Loka 5min

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on July 28, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/pricing-ai-a-practical-guide-for-a-hype-filled-world/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

3 Loka 9min

Ryan Doran is a Partner in Lead Creative and Head of UI/UX for Turkois, with over 17 years of experience in monetization strategy, payments, and scaling technology businesses.  Danny Smith is a Solution Architect at Stripe, working on AI-driven commerce innovations and partnering with AWS. In this episode, Ryan and Danny explore the critical intersection of pricing strategy and payment infrastructure, discussing how AI is transforming both the mechanics of pricing implementation and the challenge of pricing AI products themselves.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Understand the difference between billing systems and payment systems and how they work together. Learn why flexible technical infrastructure is essential for modern pricing strategies. Discover how AI is enabling hyper-personalized shopping experiences with built-in guardrails.   "Your pricing strategy is only as good as the background tech that you have to operationalize it. If you have a legacy monolithic stack and you can come up with these great strategies, but it takes you six months to implement that strategy, then you've probably been left behind already." – Danny Smith   Topics Covered: 02:15 - How Ryan got into pricing through product development and payment flows. 04:30 - Danny's journey from cloud architecture to payments infrastructure. 06:45 - The difference between billing systems and payment systems. 10:20 - Why new billing companies continue to emerge despite established players. 14:15 - How AI is accelerating data utilization in pricing decisions. 17:30 - The dual challenge: using AI for pricing vs. pricing AI products. 19:45 - Hyper-personalized shopping with AI agents and built-in guardrails. 23:10 - The ethical concerns of "sleazy price segmentation" and AI pricing. 28:40 - Agent-to-agent negotiations and policy engines. 31:20 - How AI products are changing pricing models: tokens, credits, and hybrid approaches. 35:15 - Creating "action units" to translate technical complexity into business value.   Key Takeaways: "Data is basically the new margin. What you can do with it is only gaining in value." - Ryan Doran "We've implemented API level technology that will create a budget... and it will create a virtual debit card on the backend for that exact amount, tied to today as an expiration date, tied to that particular transaction." - Danny Smith   People / Resources Mentioned: Turkois: https://turkois.io/ Vanilla POS: https://vanillapos.io/ Stripe: https://stripe.com Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/ OpenAI: https://openai.com/ Chargebee, Chargeify, Zora: Alternative billing platforms MCP Server: Technology enabling AI agents to interact with Stripe for dynamic pricing   Connect with Ryan Doran: Website: https://turkois.io/ Email: ryan@turkois.io   Connect with Danny Smith: Contact through Ryan Doran   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

29 Syys 33min

Ian Clark runs Crescendo Consulting, helping companies monetize AI features. He's advised leadership teams on packaging, pricing metrics, and outcome-based models. And of course, he performed his obligatory stint at Simon Kutcher Partners. In this episode, Ian challenges common misconceptions about AI pricing, explaining why cost-plus pricing is still wrong even with variable AI costs, how to choose the right pricing metrics beyond tokens, and why outcome-based pricing isn't the silver bullet many believe it to be.   Why you have to check out today's podcast:  Understand why AI costs shouldn't drive your pricing strategy, even when margins drop below traditional SaaS levels.  Learn how to identify pricing metrics that correlate with willingness to pay rather than falling into the token-based pricing trap. Discover why outcome-based pricing for AI faces fundamental attribution problems that make it less viable than expected.   "The best way to get willingness-to-pay data and to understand where the value of your product comes from is by doing customer interviews, not the testing, not the data, customer interviews."  – Ian Clark   Topics Covered: 02:59 - Monetizing AI vs. SaaS. The surprising similarities between AI and SaaS pricing, and why cost-plus pricing remains a bad idea even with AI's variable costs. 05:17 - Pricing Strategy in AI.The gross margin threshold where revenue-optimizing and margin-optimizing prices diverge (50-60%), plus the potato chip pricing thought experiment. 09:35 - AI Pricing Strategies.Why token-based pricing is problematic and how to find the right pricing metric that correlates with willingness to pay. 12:24 - Pricing Strategies for AI Tools.Real-world case study of sales enablement AI: choosing between user-based vs. usage-based pricing based on wallet size indicators. 16:27 - Outcomes-based Pricing Skepticism.The attribution problem with outcomes-based pricing and why it's harder to implement than it appears, using grocery shrinkage AI as an example. 20:11 - Outcome-based Pricing for AI. Sierra's "resolved conversations" model critique and the ethics of incentivizing AI agents vs. human labor. 24:03 - Pricing and Value Creation.The three-layer value framework: actual economic value → perceived value → willingness to pay, accounting for risk, timing, and budget constraints. 26:39 - 10% Rule in Pricing Strategy.Debunking the "charge 10% of value created" rule with Y Combinator math showing how small variations (9X vs 11X) can dramatically impact company survival. 30:31 - Customer Interviews for Pricing Insights.Why customer interviews beat data analysis and A/B testing for understanding willingness to pay and pain points.   Key Takeaways: "We have known for a very long time that cost-plus pricing is a really bad idea. And it's not the case that now suddenly that we have AI, now suddenly it's a good idea." - Ian Clark "So the 10x rule, it's great, but it's just woefully insufficient. Why not 11x? Why not 9x? You actually don't know." - Ian Clark "One thing that we like to say about pricing and monetization is that people think it's like architecture, but it really should be like gardening." - Ian Clark   People / Resources Mentioned: Simon Kutcher Partners: https://www.simon-kucher.com/en Alpine Investors: https://alpineinvestors.com/ James Wilton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesdwilton/ Sierra: https://sierra.ai/ Fin AI: https://fin.ai/ Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/ McKinsey: https://www.mckinsey.com/   Connect with Ian Clark: Website: https://crescendo.consulting LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-harrison-clark/ Email: ian@crescendo.consulting   Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

22 Syys 32min

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on July 21, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/why-empathy-is-your-most-underrated-pricing-tool/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

19 Syys 5min

Ton Dobbe is the founder of Value Inspiration, helping SaaS companies transform from commoditized to remarkable. He's the author of The Remarkable Effect, where he explores what makes products stand out and command premium prices. And he's a keynote speaker and podcast host himself. In this episode, Ton shares his insights on how SaaS companies can escape the commodity trap and command premium pricing by focusing on their unique approach to solving customer problems, rather than just features and functions.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Learn how to identify and articulate the real problems your customers face that keep them awake at night. Discover why competing on your approach rather than features is the key to premium pricing. Understand how guarantees and risk reduction can justify higher prices and improve your entire business operation.   "Start thinking about what you do and why customers would pay a premium for that. And if you cannot answer that, there's work to do. It's a very simple question. What would it take for people to start paying a premium for it?" – Ton Dobbe   Topics Covered: 02:37 – Startup failure and value proposition: Why 75% of software scalers fail despite achieving product-market fit and how the inability to market at appropriate value becomes their downfall  04:07 – Value is a story: Ton's definition of value as "a story in the head of a customer" versus Mark's "result of solving problems" and how perception drives pricing acceptance  09:28 – Value pricing and guarantees: How adding guarantees reduces customer fear of making mistakes and enables premium pricing, plus the psychology behind buyer decision-making 12:33 – Guaranteeing results for customers: The insurance model approach to guarantees and how implementation success creates win-win scenarios for both vendor and customer 15:28 – Competing on approach, not features: Why software companies must differentiate based on their unique approach to solving problems rather than feature comparisons with competitors  19:09 – Secret sauce for ideal customers: Ton's 12-step "pressure cooker" process for identifying your value foundation and connecting company knowledge to customer segments  22:11 – Ideal customer segmentation benefits: How focusing on perfect-fit customers accelerates sales cycles, increases win rates, stops discounting, and improves every business function  27:59 – The value of AI solutions: Why companies fail when they position themselves as "AI-powered" instead of focusing on the specific problems their AI capabilities solve 30:39 – Premium pricing strategies: The fundamental question every company must answer - why would customers pay a premium for what you do, and what would it take to achieve that?   Key Takeaways: "Value is a story in the head of a customer. When I say to you, for example, this is 30,000 US dollars. Some people will say, that's expensive. And other people will say, that's a bargain. And the difference is how well you communicate the value in a way that clicks with them." – Ton Dobbe "The moment you can add something like a guarantee or like a reliable promise to that, you can even charge more on pricing because it takes a lot of objections away around the fear of messing up." – Ton Dobbe "If you compete on a feature function level, everybody will lose. So you have to make a choice, are we going to compete on the feature function level or are we going to compete on something else?" – Ton Dobbe "The moment you get that idea in their head, this is the choice and they're gonna solve my problem better than anyone else. They're gonna give me more value than anyone else. Well, why should I even start talking about discounts?" – Ton Dobbe   People / Resources Mentioned: The Jolt Effect (book on buyer indecision) Christian Owens, CEO of Paddle   Connect with Ton Dobbe: Website: https://valueinspiration.com Book: https://theremarkableeffect.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tondobbe/    Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

15 Syys 33min

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on July 14, 2025, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/two-buyers-talked-and-nothing-bad-happened/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com.  Now, go make an impact.   Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

12 Syys 4min

Scott Kelly is the founder and CEO of Blackdog Venture Partners, and he has been for 25 years. He's the host of VC Fast Pitch and he has about a dozen companies with the name Blackdog in them. Scott has taken 3 companies public and raised $5 billion throughout his career. In this episode, Scott explains how important it is for entrepreneurs to listen to their customers when setting prices, as he shares his knowledge on maximizing profits through effective pricing strategies that investors love.   Why you have to check out today's podcast: Learn how crucial recurring revenue models are to attracting investors and why subscription-based pricing provides the consistency they seek.  Find out why selling on price alone is bad for both sides of the transaction and how to focus on value instead.  Understand the power of letting your customers help you determine pricing through relationship-building rather than transactions.   "Let your customers help you price." – Scott Kelly   Topics Covered: 02:00 – How Scott accidentally discovered pricing through helping hundreds of entrepreneurs raise capital and maximize profits  03:00 – Why competing on lowest price destroys value for both buyer and seller - and what to do instead  05:00 – AI's double impact on pricing: Using it for better decisions vs. pricing AI-enabled products  06:00 – The carpenter analogy: Why AI is just a tool and the real value comes from expertise in wielding it  07:00 – How AI will democratize business like the internet did - and what that means for pricing 09:00 – The art of determining "what the market will bear" through customer relationships and feedback  12:00 – Why Scott brings up pricing "almost immediately" with entrepreneurs (and why you should too)  14:00 – Finding the pricing "strike zone" - where customers won't jump for joy but won't run out the door  15:00 – The relationship vs. transaction mindset: How to get customers to help set your prices  17:00 – Scott's final wisdom: Let your customers help you price - the ultimate customer-centric approach   Key Takeaways: "At the end of the day, you want to provide enough value so they stick around at a price that can keep you sticking around." – Scott Kelly "AI is a tool. You need to make sure you have the right carpenter or the right instrument and the right professional playing that instrument. So I think how you price that is the value add that you bring to this tool that's AI." – Scott Kelly "You have to spend time getting to know them. I think it's a process of establishing a relationship versus a transaction." – Scott Kelly   People / Resources Mentioned: VC Fast Pitch: https://vcfastpitch.com/    Connect with Scott Kelly: Website: https://blackdogventurepartners.com/   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blackdogceo/    Connect with Mark Stiving:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/  Email: mailto:mark@impactpricing.com

8 Syys 18min