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From the earliest days of the pandemic, herd immunity has consistently factored into conversations about how countries can find their way out of lockdowns and restrictions.Now, many experts believe that the United States may never reach the requisite level of immunity.We explore why, and what it might look like to live in a country where there is no herd immunity against the coronavirus.Guest: Apoorva Mandavilli, a science and global health reporter for The New York Times. Sign up here to get The Daily in your inbox each morning. And for an exclusive look at how the biggest stories on our show come together, subscribe to our newsletter. Background reading: The emergence of widely circulating coronavirus variants and persistent hesitancy about vaccines will keep the goal out of reach. The virus appears to be here to stay, but vaccinating the most vulnerable may be enough to restore normalcy.For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.