546: Rock Waterman (and Connie) Reports on his Mormon Excommunication

In this powerful continuation of our interview with Ben and Justine, we explore their raw and honest journey from deep devotion in the LDS Church to personal awakening, heartbreak, and healing.They share how their relationship grew during Justine’s school years, navigating early marriage, financial and gender-role challenges, and the burden of trying to live up to faith-based ideals. From motherhood identity struggles to confronting doctrinal issues and discovering their voices during a faith crisis, this episode is full of vulnerable, eye-opening moments.Highlights include:Gender roles & pressure in MormonismThe cost of silence during a faith crisisThe CES Letter, LDS Discussions & uncovering hard truthsHealing from betrayal, rebuilding marriage & reconnecting with familyTheir plea for empathy from believing membersWhether you're in faith, out of faith, or somewhere in between—this is a story about agency, partnership, and finding truth together.Watch this episode on YouTube here.___________________At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals. Our overall mission is to: 1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions</p><p><a href="https://www.mormonstories.org/mormon-historian-admits-issues-in-ces-letter/">Show Notes</a></p><p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T13dVy3izM">YouTube</a></p><p><br></p><p>Mormon Stories Thanks Our Generous Donors!</p><p>Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today:</p><ul> <li><a href="https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m">One-time or recurring donation through Donorbox</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories">Support us on Patreon</a></li>  <li><a href="https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/mormonstories">PayPal</a></li>  <li><a href="https://account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories">Venmo</a></li></ul><p><br></p><p>Our Platforms:</p><ul>  <li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/mormonstories?sub_confirmation=1">YouTube</a></li>  <li><a href="https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories">Patreon</a></li>  <li><a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404">Spotify</a></li>  <li><a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772">Apple Podcasts</a></li></ul><p><br></p><p>Contact us:<br>MormonStories@gmail.com<br>PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117</p><p><br></p><p>Social Media:</p><ul>  <li><a href="https://www.instagram.com/mormstories">Insta: @mormstories</a></li>  <li><a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast">TikTok: @mormonstoriespodcast</a></li>  <li><a href="https://discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF">Join the Discord</a></li></ul>

1 Mai 3h 5min

In this episode, Ben and Justine share their powerful and emotional journeys through Mormonism, immigration, family trauma, and healing. They discuss Ben's family's escape from political turmoil, their struggles with loss, and the lure of the Mormon doctrine of eternal families.Ben faces racial and cultural challenges within the Church, battles self-worth issues, and grapples with the harm purity culture and missionary service caused.Justine recounts her own upbringing in a strict Mormon household, the pressure of modesty culture, and the way Mormon ideals shaped her relationships and sense of self. Together, they reflect on how they met, the impact of internalized racism, and their path toward authenticity, healing, and love — even as they confront the pain Mormonism left behind.This is part 1 of a very special two-part Mormon Stories interview.00:00:00 Introduction 00:06:34 Ben’s parents experience multiple infant loss/miscarriage00:28:15 Reconnecting with the Church in Canada00:39:00 “I left my home, my pride, mi familia.”00:58:30 How Mormonism helps & harms at the same time01:10:15 Justine’s Mormon childhood, youngest of 7, father a convert01:22:11 Chosen generation trope affects relationships w/friends & family01:38:10 Effects of purity culture01:47:49 Justine repents for first boyfriend, first kiss at University02:09:27 Ben & Justine become friends02:17:13 Going on a mission causes more strife with Ben’s parents02:38:20 Ben ignores intuition to tell gay convert not to join, ending in tragedy02:55:45 Justine feels pressure to focus on numbers instead of people on her mission03:20:07 How Justine & Ben start dating03:24:15 Book of Mormon racism03:26:30 Ben’s anguish over harm to himself & his relationship with his parentsShow NotesYouTubeMormon Stories Thanks Our Generous Donors!Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today:One-time or recurring donation through DonorboxSupport us on PatreonPayPalVenmoOur Platforms:YouTubePatreonSpotifyApple PodcastsContact us:MormonStories@gmail.comPO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117Social Media:Insta: @mormstoriesTikTok: @mormonstoriespodcastJoin the Discord

28 Apr 3h 33min

In this powerful follow-up conversation, Britt Hartley returns to explore 10 practical and emotional steps to take during your faith deconstruction journey. From embracing anger and grief, to rediscovering your identity, setting boundaries, and finding peace in the unknown—this episode is a guide to healing, growth, and transformation.Whether you're newly questioning or deep in the process, these insights will help you navigate deconstruction with compassion and clarity.Topics include:Grieving your old beliefsEmbracing uncertaintyInner child & shadow workBuilding authentic communitySetting loving boundariesLearning to just beJoin us as we unpack the deep emotional layers of deconstruction and the tools that can truly support your journey.00:00:00 Introduction00:04:17 First: Anger, grief phase, etc. Lean into the anger00:12:12 Second: Embracing what you don’t know00:20:36 Third: Dating yourself00:29:52 Fourth: Inner child work00:37:11 Fifth: Shadow work00:44:35 Sixth: Deculting00:50:38 Seventh: Vulnerably reaching out to others00:57:00 How men are doing in deconstruction vs. how women are doing01:01:32 Eighth: Exploring human development01:08:15 Ninth: Boundaries from a place of love01:14:33 Tenth: Learning how to just be01:19:00 Closing remarksShow NotesYouTubeMormon Stories Thanks Our Generous Donors!Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today:One-time or recurring donation through DonorboxSupport us on PatreonPayPalVenmoOur Platforms:YouTubePatreonSpotifyApple PodcastsContact us:MormonStories@gmail.comPO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117Social Media:Insta: @mormstoriesTikTok: @mormonstoriespodcastJoin the Discord

24 Apr 1h 26min

Jennifer Wilson shares her deeply personal journey from growing up in a devout Mormon family to questioning, deconstructing, and ultimately leaving her faith. She opens up about her family's polygamist history, her mission experience, marriage, leadership roles in the church, and the struggles that came with navigating faith transitions. From grappling with church expectations to finding newfound freedom and clarity, Jennifer reflects on how this journey has reshaped her identity, marriage, and parenting.Key Topics Covered: Growing up in a Mormon household & family history, missionary experiences & gender expectations in the church, marriage, motherhood & church leadership roles, doubts, faith crisis & leaving the church, Raising kids outside of Mormonism & rediscovering identity.Join us for an honest, heartfelt conversation about faith, change, and self-discovery. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share your thoughts in the comments!___________________At Mormon Stories we explore, celebrate, and challenge Mormon culture through in-depth stories told by members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as scholars, authors, LDS apologists, and other professionals. Our overall mission is to: 1. Facilitate informed consent amongst LDS Church members, investigators, and non-members regarding Mormon history, doctrine, and theology2. Support Mormons (and members of other high-demand religions) who are experiencing a religious faith crisis3. Promote healing, growth and community for those who choose to leave the LDS Church or other high demand religions🤝Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor todayOne-time or recurring donations: https://donorbox.org/mormon-stories?default_interval=m Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories Venmo: https://account.venmo.com/u/mormonstories Paypal: https://paypal.me/mormonstories Join this channel to get access to perks:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx6OgmoqJbOVRq-Lv1P7SzA/joinOur Platforms:🌐Mormon Stories Blog: https://www.mormonstories.org/episodes 🎙️Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mormonstories ✳️Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4sDzk7dRjODTSEqzZKZJzk?si=148b0efc1ccc4404&nd=1 🍎Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mormon-stories-lds/id312094772 🖼️Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mormstories 📱TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mormonstoriespodcast 🎮Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kuX5p6yyjF Contact us:📧 MormonStories@gmail.com📬PO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117

21 Apr 3h 52min

In this episode, we explore 10 common pitfalls people face during religious deconstruction. From navigating relationships and parenting outside of organized religion to the challenges of psychedelics, intellectualism, and identity loss—this is a raw, honest conversation about life after faith. Whether you're just beginning your journey or deep in it, this discussion offers insight, validation, and guidance.Key topics covered:Why opening your marriage right after leaving religion may backfireHow to provide structure for your kids without religionThe psychedelic trap & chasing spiritual highsThe “missionary phase” of ex-belief systemsFinding meaning beyond religion, without clinging to new dogmasThe lifelong process of deconstructionAnd much more, including Gen Z dating, chakras, free will, and dreamsDon’t miss her reflections on what she’s learned, what to avoid, and how to move forward with integrity and openness.Show NotesYouTube00:00:00 Introduction00:04:44 These are things she's learned to be aware of as you are in the mess of religious deconstruction; it’s not a same thing00:08:04 The first thing you should avoid: Opening your marriage soon after leaving your faith00:16:32 Second: Providing order and structure for kids00:22:37 Do kids need religion for structure and order?00:34:15 Third: Psychedelic chasing00:39:45 Four: Clinging to new beliefs00:45:32 Reality is more magical than how we view reality00:50:28 Five: Avoid the Missionary Phase. Sam Harris says: “No one is more ardent in their atheism than exMormons”00:57:01 Six: Not recognizing the good in religion 01:04:57 Seven: Underestimating the hard work it is to replace religion01:12:32 Eight: Underestimating that deconstruction is a lifelong process01:18:11 Do we have free will? 01:28:32 Nine: Avoid finding new prophets01:35:45 Ten: Overemphasis on intellectualism01:42:53 Final thoughtsMormon Stories Thanks Our Generous Donors!Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today:One-time or recurring donation through DonorboxSupport us on PatreonPayPalVenmoOur Platforms:YouTubePatreonSpotifyApple PodcastsContact us:MormonStories@gmail.comPO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117Social Media:Insta: @mormstoriesTikTok: @mormonstoriespodcastJoin the Discord

17 Apr 1h 48min

After nearly two centuries of strict modesty standards, the Mormon Church has made a historic change—women’s garments now allow for exposed shoulders. In this in-depth panel, Mormon women unpack the significance of this shift. From the garments' Masonic roots and historical designs to the ways they’ve shaped modesty culture, sexuality, and control over women's bodies, this conversation dives deep. The panel also explores the social media response, health concerns, and the ongoing discomfort many women still face. With personal stories, historical context, and commentary on the new designs, this is a must-watch discussion on a topic rarely spoken about so openly.Show NotesYouTube00:00:00 Introductions00:18:15 Rules around garments00:26:32 Modesty culture shaped by garments00:34:10 Church doctrine around garments00:39:50 Modesty policing among members - “garment checking”01:06:00 The effect of garments on a couple’s sex life01:25:00 Photos of the new garment designs01:32:00 How would they have received this info as an active believer?01:51:00 Nancy’s final comments02:02:35 @AndreaFausett video02:09:28 @VikaFroclieh video02:18:00 Video of woman walking into church in new garments02:25:25 Discussion on if tight fitting clothing is okay02:27:00 “Gen Z is different”02:28:10 Third @AndreaFausett video02:332:26 Sharing superchat comments02:34:54 @NicoleEversten video02:36:25 Second @VikaFroclieh video02:42:30 @Haleyrawle video02:51:20 @Exponentii_blog video (Abby’s video)02:55:32 Final thoughtsMormon Stories Thanks Our Generous Donors!Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today:One-time or recurring donation through DonorboxSupport us on PatreonPayPalVenmoOur Platforms:YouTubePatreonSpotifyApple PodcastsContact us:MormonStories@gmail.comPO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117Social Media:Insta: @mormstoriesTikTok: @mormonstoriespodcastJoin the Discord

15 Apr 3h

In Part 2 of our story, Kyle opens up about his life growing up in the Two by Twos faith — from a childhood shaped by pressure to "uphold the family name," to navigating chronic illness and suppressing his passions for music and basketball in order to prioritize church. We talk about the expectations around professing young, the control over dating, marriage, and even parenting — including the harmful encouragement of corporal punishment.As cracks began to form during the COVID-19 pandemic, Kyle and Kari found themselves questioning everything they believed. From hidden doubts, religious trauma, and Kari’s journey of discovering her bisexuality, to the couple’s darkest moments and eventual transformation, this episode dives deep into how they began rebuilding their lives outside the 2x2 world.We also discuss the emerging abuse allegations within the Two by Twos church, the beginnings of their Ex-Two by Two support group, and the broader fight for transparency and accountability in a faith that claims to have no organization at all. This is a raw, emotional, and revealing chapter of their deconstruction journey.Show NotesYouTube00:00:00 Introduction00:04:02 Kyle’s background & upbringing as a 2x200:16:17 What happens when a child “professes”?00:29:06 Feeling immense pressure to stick to the gospel00:34:21 His views on dating at the time00:44:40 2x2 Wedding00:48:23 Were told by multiple people the needed to “break their kids” - corporal punishment very big among 2x200:56:40 How did 2x2 members look at covid/the vaccine/masks?01:12:49 Kari told Kyle she was atheist 01:26:24 Kyle had the feeling that he just ran off a cliff01:37:21 Kari realized, if it feels like the only way out is death, it is not a healthy religion - realized he was giving too much to something that was not giving back01:46:09 Kari got her ears pierced for the first time - was a very liberating experience 01:47:15 “The Ex 2x2 Support Group”01:53:38 Highly respected overseer found dead in a hotel room 02:15:25 “If there is no organization, there is no organization to sue”02:29:55 ‘How do you shut down an organization that doesn't exist?”02:35:02 How much money does the 2x2 church have? How can it be tracked?02:42:00 How do they try to gather with ex-members?02:53:15 ConclusionMormon Stories Thanks Our Generous Donors!Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today:One-time or recurring donation through DonorboxSupport us on PatreonPayPalVenmoOur Platforms:YouTubePatreonSpotifyApple PodcastsContact us:MormonStories@gmail.comPO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117Social Media:Insta: @mormstoriesTikTok: @mormonstoriespodcastJoin the Discord

14 Apr 2h 56min

Kari & Kyle Hanks share their journey of leaving the secretive 2x2 church, a religious group with no official name, written doctrine, or corporate structure. They discuss their upbringings, struggles with faith, the exclusivity of the religion, and the trauma they endured. From discovering the church’s hidden history to creating a support group for ex-members, they expose abuse scandals, strict doctrines on women, and emotional suppression within the group. Their deconstruction was influenced by the Mormon Stories Podcast, COVID-19, and personal revelations about belief, identity, and autonomy. Now, they advocate for informed consent and support those leaving high-control religions.Show NotesYouTube00:00:00 Introduction00:02:40 Kari & Kyle introduce themselves and the Two by Twos group00:14:04 They do not have a written doctrine, it is all word of mouth00:21:59 The founding of Two by Two - founded by William Irving00:28:28 It wasn’t until 1905 that the group started preaching exclusivity00:37:52 Irving is kicked out of the church, although some still stay loyal to him. Another splinter group.00:49:50 Three meetings a week01:00:46 Background of their theology/doctrine01:09:02 Discussion of Heaven & Hell01:17:04 Kari’s background in the church01:23:17 Growing up as a 2x2 girl01:30:30 How does the group refer to themselves?01:38:43 Never having the language to describe her feelings or sexuality01:42:09 Higher education was discouraged for many, especially women01:54:17 Emotional manipulation in high demand religions02:24:47 2x2s very politically conservative, but are not typically involved politically02:27:08 When did she start to think she was in a cult?Mormon Stories Thanks Our Generous Donors!Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today:One-time or recurring donation through DonorboxSupport us on PatreonPayPalVenmoOur Platforms:YouTubePatreonSpotifyApple PodcastsContact us:MormonStories@gmail.comPO Box 171085, Salt Lake City, UT 84117Social Media:Insta: @mormstoriesTikTok: @mormonstoriespodcastJoin the Discord

9 Apr 2h 34min