Diamond Sutra – Talk 5 – 2008 Series

The Diamond Sutra is a Mahayana sutra from the genre of Prajnaparamita ('perfection of wisdom') sutras. In this series Norman will referernce the Diamond Sutra - Red Pine Edition.  Norman covers Chapters 16 thru 32 (the end)of the Diamond Sutra, Red Pine Edition. Due to recording issues the first five minutes of the talk are missing. Diamond Sutra 5 By Zoketsu Norman Fischer | November 26, 2008 Abridged and edited by Barbara Byrum and Cynthia Schrager Chapter 17: Again the venerable Subhuti asked the Buddha, "Bhagavan if someone sets forth on the bodhisattva path, how should they stand? How should they walk? And how should they control their thoughts?" The Buddha said, "Subhuti, someone who sets forth on the bodhisattva path should give birth to the thought: 'In the realm of complete nirvana I shall liberate all beings. And while I thus liberate beings, not a single being is liberated.' And why not? Subhuti, a bodhisattva who creates the perception of a being cannot be called a 'bodhisattva.' Neither can someone who creates the perception of a life, or even the perception of a soul, be called a 'bodhisattva.' And why not? Subhuti, there is no such dharma as setting forth on the bodhisattva path." Here we see the combination of compassion and emptiness. The bodhisattvas are all about saving beings, all about this universal desire to benefit others, but with the recognition that the bodhisattva himself - herself - and the beings are empty of any separation. So in a way, it is not a big problem to save all beings, because the thought of saving in your own mind is also saving all beings, because there is no separation. There is no real difference. There is no such dharma as setting forth on the bodhisattva path. It is empty of any separation, any distinction. "What do you think, Subhuti? When the Tathagata was with Dipankara Tathagatha, did he realize any such dharma as unexcelled, perfect enlightenment?" To this the venerable Subhuti answered, "Bhagavan, as I understand the meaning of what the Tathagatha has taught, when the Tathagatha was with Dipankara Tathagata, the Arhan, the Fully-Enlightened One, he did not realize any such dharma as unexcelled, perfect enlightenment." [You can imagine an innocent, faithful Buddhist hearing that and saying, "What are you saying?"] And to this the Buddha replied, "So it is, Subhuti. When the Tathagatha was with Dipankara Tathagata, the Arhan, the Fully-Enlightened One, he did not realize any such dharma as unexcelled, perfect enlightenment. If the Tathagatha had realized any dharma, then Dipankara would not have prophesied of him, 'Young man, in the future you shall become the tathagata, the arhan, the fully-enlightened one, named Shakyamuni.'" Why? Because if you think there is an unexcelled, perfect "something," you have a conceptual belief in something that isn't empty. That's exactly the opposite of awakening. Awakening is the recognition that there is no such thing as awakening. That is awakening - recognizing that there is no such thing as a being; no such thing as a person; no such thing as a self. That is awakening. "Subhuti, imagine a perfect person with an immense, perfect body." The venerable Subhuti said, "This perfect person whom the Tathagata says has an 'immense, perfect body,' has no body." The Buddha said, "So it is, Subhuti, and if a bodhisattva says 'I shall liberate other beings,' that person is not called a 'bodhisattva'. And why not? Subhuti, is there any such dharma as a bodhisattva? 'Beings,' Subhuti, are said by the Tathagata to be no beings. Thus are they called 'beings.' Thus does the Tathagata say that all dharmas have no self. All dharmas have no life, no individuality, and no soul." When you read this, you can see how people would think this is nihilistic. It sounds kind of bleak - no dharmas, no life, no soul, no nothing, no individuality. But maybe to get the sense of it better,