JSJ 343: The Power of Progressive Enhancement with Andy Bell

JSJ 343: The Power of Progressive Enhancement with Andy Bell

Panel:
- Charles Max Wood
- Aimee Knight
- Chris Ferdinandi
- AJ O’Neal
Special Guest: Andy BellIn this episode, the panel talks with Andy Bell who is an independent designer and developer who uses React, Vue, and Node. Today, the panelists and the guest talk about the power of progressive enhancements. Check it out!Show Topics:0:00 – https://www.telerik.com/kendo-ui?utm_campaign=kendo-ui-awareness-jsjabber&utm_medium=social-paid&utm_source=devchattv 0:34 – Chuck: Hi! Our panel is AJ, Aimee, Chris, myself and my new show is coming out in a few weeks, which is called the http://thedevrev.com It helps you with developer’s freedom! I am super excited. Our guest is Andy Bell. Introduce yourself, please.2:00 – Guest: I am an independent designer and developer out in the U.K.2:17 – Chuck: You wrote things about Vanilla.js. I am foreshadowing a few things and let’s talk about the power and progressive enhancement.2:43 – The guest gives us definitions of power and progressive enhancements. He describes how it works. 3:10 – Chuck: I’ve heard that people would turn off JavaScript b/c it was security concern and then your progressive enhancement would make it work w/o JavaScript. I am sure there’s more than that?3:28 – The guest talks about JavaScript, dependencies, among other things. 4:40 – Chuck: Your post did make that very clear I think. I am thinking I don’t even know where to start with this. Are people using the 6th version? How far back or what are we talking about here?5:09 – Guest: You can go really far back and make it work w/o CSS.5:49 – Chris: I am a big advocate of progressive enhancement – the pushback I get these days is that there is a divide; between the broadband era and AOL dialup. Are there compelling reasons why progressive enhancements even matter?6:48 – Guest.8:05 – Panel: My family lives out in the boonies. I am aware of 50% of American don’t have fast Internet. People don’t have access to fast browsers but I don’t think they are key metric users.8:47 – Guest: It totally depends on what you need it for. It doesn’t matter if these people are paying or not.9:31 – Chris: Assuming I have a commute on the trail and it goes through a spotty section. In a scenario that it’s dependent on the JS...are we talking about 2 different things here?10:14 – Panelist chimes-in. 10:36 – Chris: I can take advantage of it even if I cannot afford a new machine.10:55 – Panel: Where would this really matter to you?11:05 – Chris: I do have a nice new laptop.11:12 – Chuck: I had to hike up to the hill (near the house) to make a call and the connection was really poor (in OK). It’s not the norm but it can happen.11:37 – Chris: Or how about the All Trails app when I am on the trail.11:52 – Guest.12:40 – Chris: I can remember at the time that the desktop sites it was popular to have...Chris: Most of those sites were inaccessible to me.13:17 – Guest.13:51 – Chuck: First-world countries will have a good connection and it’s not a big deal. If you are thinking though about your customers and where they live? Is that fair? I am thinking that my customers need to be able to access the podcast – what would you suggest? What are the things that you’d make sure is accessible to them.14:31 – Guest: I like to pick on the minimum viable experience? I think to read the transcript is important than the audio (MP3).15:47 – Chuck.15:52 – Guest: It’s a lot easier with Vue b/c you don’t’ have to set aside rendering.17:13 – AJ: I am thinking: that there is a way to start developing progressively and probably cheaper and easier to the person who is developing. If it saves us a buck and helps then we take action.17:49 – Guest: It’s much easier if you start that way and if you enhance the feature itself.18:38 – AJ: Let me ask: what are the situations where I wouldn’t / shouldn’t worry about progressive enhancements?18:57 – Guest answers the question. 19:42 – AJ: I want people to feel motivated in a place WHERE to start. Something like a blog needs Java for comments. https://vtldesign.com/web-strategy/website-design-development/hamburger-icon-flyout-menu-website-navigation/ is mentioned, too. 20:20 – Guest.21:05 – Chris: Can we talk about code?21:16 – Aimee: This is the direction I wanted to go. What do you mean by that – building your applications progressively?https://andy-bell.design/writing/21:44 – Guest.22:13 – Chuck: I use stock overflow!22:20 – Guest.22:24 – Chuck: I mean that’s what Chris uses!22:33 – Guest (continues).23:42 – Aimee.23:54 – Chris.24:09 – Chris24:16 – Chris: Andy what do you think about that?24:22 – Guest: Yes, that’s good.24:35 – Chris: Where it falls apart is the resistance to progressive enhancements that it means that your approach has to be boring?25:03 – Guest answers the question. The guest mentions modern CSS and modern JavaScript are mentioned along with tooling.25:50 – Chuck: My issue is that when we talk about this (progressive enhancement) lowest common denominator and some user at some level (slow network) and then they can access it. Then the next level (better access) can access it. I start at the bottom and then go up. Then when they say progressive enhancement I get lost. Should I scrap it and then start over or what?26:57 – Guest: If it’s feasible do it and then set a timeline up.27:42 – Chuck: You are saying yes do it a layer at a time – but my question is HOW? What parts can I pair back? Are there guidelines to say: do this first and then how to test?28:18 – https://sentry.io/welcome/ 29:20 – Guest: Think about the user flow. What does the user want to do at THIS point? Do you need to work out the actual dependencies?30:31 – Chuck: Is there a list of those capabilities somewhere? So these users can use it this way and these users can use it that way?30:50 – Guest answers the question. 31:03 – Guest: You can pick out the big things.31:30 – Chuck: I am using this feature in the browser...31:41 – Guest.31:46 – Chris: I think this differently than you Andy – I’ve stopped caring if a browser supports something new. I am fine using CSS grid and if your browser doesn’t support it then I don’t have a problem with that. I get hung up on, though if this fails can they still get the content? If they have no access to these – what should they be able to do?Note: “Cutting the Mustard Test” is mentioned. 33:37 – Guest.33:44 – Chuck: Knowing your users and if it becomes a problem then I will figure it out.34:00 – Chris: I couldn’t spare the time to make it happen right now b/c I am a one-man shop.34:20 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 34:36 –Chris: Check out links below for my product.34:54 – AJ: A lot of these things are in the name: progressive. 36:20 – https://andy-bell.design 38:51 – Chris: Say that they haven’t looked at it all before. Do you mind talking about these things and what the heck is a web component?39:14 – The guest gives us his definition of what a web component is. 40:02 – Chuck: Most recent episode in Angular about web components, but that was a few years ago. See links below for that episode.40:25 – Aimee.40:31 – Guest: Yes, it’s a lot like working in Vue and web components. The concepts are very similar.41:22 – Chris: Can someone please give us an example? A literal slideshow example?41:45 – Guest answers the question. 45:07 – Chris.45:12 – Guest: It’s a framework that just happens to use web components and stuff to help.45:54 – Chuck: Yeah they make it easier (Palmer). Yeah there is a crossover with Palmer team and other teams. I can say that b/c I have talked with people from both teams. Anything else?46:39 – Chuck: Where do they go to learn more?46:49 – Guest: https://webcomponents.club And my Twitter! (See links below.)47:33 – Chuck: I want to shout-out about https://devlifts.io that has $19 a month to help you with physical goals. Or you can get the premium slot! It’s terrific stuff. Sign-up with DEVCHAT code but there is a limited number of slots and there is a deadline, too. Just try it! They have a podcast, too!49:16 – Aimee: http://podcast.devlifts.io 49:30 – Chuck: Picks!END – https://www.cachefly.com Links:
- https://www.javascript.com
- https://reactjs.org
- https://elixir-lang.org
- Ember.js
- https://vuejs.org
- https://golang.org/project/
- http://jquery.com
- https://nodejs.org/en/
- https://github.com/GoogleChrome/puppeteer
- https://www.cypress.io
- https://devchat.tv/adv-in-angular/115-aia-polymer-and-web-components-with-angular-2-with-rob-dodson/
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Can You Really Trust AI-Generated Code? - JSJ 699

Can You Really Trust AI-Generated Code? - JSJ 699

AI is writing more of our code than ever before—but should we actually trust it? In this episode of JavaScript Jabber, I sat down with Itamar Friedman from Codo (formerly Quoto) to dig into one of the biggest questions developers are wrestling with right now: What happens when AI is generating code, reviewing code, and shaping how we ship software?We explore where AI fits into modern code review, whether developers should be worried about job security, and how human responsibility still plays a critical role—even in an AI-powered workflow. From guardrails and quality standards to the future of agent-driven development, this conversation goes beyond hype and gets into what’s actually working today (and what still needs a human in the loop).AI isn’t replacing developers—it’s changing how we build, review, and take ownership of software. If you enjoyed this conversation, make sure to rate, follow, share, and review JavaScript Jabber. It really helps the show, and it helps more developers join the conversation. Thanks for listening—and we’ll see you next time!Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

24 Dec 46min

The Real State of Tech Hiring: AI, Ghosting, and the Developer Drought - JSJ 698

The Real State of Tech Hiring: AI, Ghosting, and the Developer Drought - JSJ 698

In this episode of JavaScript Jabber, Steve Edwards and I kick things off by catching up on life — from winter weather and marathon training to health journeys, CrossFit, and some behind-the-scenes personal stories that shaped how we think about wellness and longevity. After warming up, we shift our focus to the state of the tech job market, something both of us have been watching closely and experiencing firsthand.We dive into the challenges developers are facing today — especially juniors — and compare our hiring and job-hunting experiences, the impact of AI on resumes and screening, the slowdown in bootcamps, and why the industry feels different than it did even a few years ago. We also unpack economics, incentives, and business realities affecting hiring, plus what developers should be doing right now to stand out.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

10 Dec 1h 4min

Why Astro Is Winning Developers Over with Sagi Carmel - JSJ 697

Why Astro Is Winning Developers Over with Sagi Carmel - JSJ 697

In this episode, I sit down with developer and speaker Sagi Carmel to dive deep into Astro, why it’s gaining so much traction, and how it compares to frameworks like Next.js, Nuxt, Remix, and SvelteKit. We explore what makes Astro uniquely powerful — from its server-first approach and island architecture to its simplicity, speed, and ability to integrate with any front-end framework you want.Sagi also walks me through real-world use cases, including how he built Israel’s official Census website with Astro, why scoped CSS and server components simplify the development experience, and how tools like HTMX and view transitions make web UX buttery smooth. If you’ve been curious about Astro, this conversation is a terrific deep dive into both its fundamentals and its advanced capabilities.🔗 Links & ResourcesAstro Documentation: https://astro.buildHTMX: https://htmx.orgLooker (Google Cloud): https://cloud.google.com/lookerBigQuery: https://cloud.google.com/bigquerySagi Carmel on YouTube: @SagiCarmelSagi Carmel on LinkedIn: Search “Sagi Carmel”Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

23 Nov 1h 3min

The Truth About AI in Everyday JavaScript Development - JSJ 696

The Truth About AI in Everyday JavaScript Development - JSJ 696

It feels great to finally be back on the mic after a stretch of travel, work, and general chaos, and in this episode we’re diving into a topic that’s been coming up more and more in everyday developer conversations: how to actually use AI in your JavaScript development workflow. This isn’t about adding AI features to your app — it’s about using LLMs and AI-powered tools as part of your day-to-day coding practice.We talk through the tools we each rely on, how they’ve changed the way we write code, where they fall short, and where they can save hours of work. We also dig into the real differences between “AI-assisted coding” and “vibe coding,” the unexpected pitfalls of having AI write your tests, and the growing concerns juniors are facing in a job market that looks very different than it did just a few years ago. If you’re trying to figure out how to work with AI without losing your sanity (or your code quality), this one’s worth a listen.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

14 Nov 1h 15min

Guarding the JavaScript Supply Chain: Preventing NPM Attacks with Feross Aboukhadijeh - JSJ 695

Guarding the JavaScript Supply Chain: Preventing NPM Attacks with Feross Aboukhadijeh - JSJ 695

Hey everyone—it’s Steve Edwards here, and in this episode of JavaScript Jabber, I’m joined by returning guest Feross Aboukhadijeh, founder of Socket.dev, for a deep dive into the dark and fascinating world of open source supply chain security. From phishing campaigns targeting top NPM maintainers to the now-infamous Chalk library compromise, we unpack the latest wave of JavaScript package attacks and what developers can learn from them.Feross explains how some hackers are even using AI tools like Claude and Gemini as part of their payloads—and how defenders like Socket are fighting back with AI-powered analysis of their own. We also dive into GitHub Actions vulnerabilities, the role of two-factor authentication, and the growing need for “phishing-resistant 2FA.” Whether you’re an open source maintainer or just someone who runs npm install a little too often, this episode will open your eyes to how much happens behind the scenes to keep your code safe.🔗 Links & ResourcesSocket.dev – Protect your open source dependenciesFeross Aboukhadijeh on X (Twitter)GitHub Actions Security Best PracticesTruffleHog Blog – On secrets exposure in Git reposBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

1 Nov 1h

Making Monorepos Breakproof with Anton Stoychev - JSJ 694

Making Monorepos Breakproof with Anton Stoychev - JSJ 694

In this solo-hosted episode, I (Steve Edwards) dive deep into the world of modern monorepos with special guest Anton Stoychev from Yotpo. Anton shares his journey from the early days of PHP and IE6 nightmares to his current work in front-end infrastructure, performance optimization, and developer tooling.We talk about the challenges of managing dependencies, upgrading tools without breaking your codebase, and the evolution of developer experience across teams and companies. Anton also introduces Breakproof, Yotpo’s open-source monorepo template designed to make dependency management and tool upgrades painless—even when working with multiple Node.js versions, runtimes like Bun and Deno, and complex CI environments.If you’ve ever struggled with upgrading Jest, ESLint, or TypeScript in a large monorepo, or you’re curious how to isolate dependencies to keep your codebase maintainable over time, this episode is a must-listen.🔗 Links & Resources🔧 Breakproof on GitHub: breakproof.dev🧠 Yotpo LTD on GitHub: Yotpo Breakproof Base Monorepo💬 Follow Anton Stoychev: stoychev.dev on BlueSkyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

24 Okt 1h 13min

Spec-Driven Development and the Future of AI IDEs with AWS’s Kiro - JSJ 693

Spec-Driven Development and the Future of AI IDEs with AWS’s Kiro - JSJ 693

In this episode of JavaScript Jabber, I sit down with AWS’s Clare Liguori and Erik Hanchett to talk about Kiro, a brand-new AI-powered IDE that’s reimagining the way developers build software. We dive into how Kiro takes “AI-assisted coding” to a new level through spec-driven development — a process that focuses on defining requirements and collaborating with AI to break projects into clear, manageable tasks.We unpack what sets Kiro apart from tools like Cursor and Copilot, explore its supervised vs. autopilot coding modes, and even talk about how it handles UI design, planning, and complex legacy codebases. Clare and Erik share behind-the-scenes insights on how Kiro was built using Kiro itself, what’s coming next for the platform, and how developers can join the early-access community to help shape its future.🔗 Links & Resources:🌐 Kiro Official Site🧠 AWS Developer Advocate TeamBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

9 Okt 43min

Modern JavaScript Testing: Integration, Contract Testing & AI Tools - JSJ 692

Modern JavaScript Testing: Integration, Contract Testing & AI Tools - JSJ 692

In this episode of JavaScript Jabber, I sit down with Dan Shapir and our special guest, Yoni Goldberg, to dive deep into the ever-evolving world of JavaScript testing. Yoni, a consultant who’s worked with over 40 organizations to refine developer workflows, shares valuable lessons learned from helping teams design efficient and reliable tests.We explore emerging trends in testing, including the rise of browser-based test runners, the shift from unit testing toward more integration and component testing, and how modern frameworks like Playwright, Vite Test Browser Mode, and Storybook are changing the way developers think about confidence in their code. We also tackle the role of AI in writing and maintaining tests, the pros and cons of mocking vs. real backends, and why contract testing is becoming essential in 2025.If you’ve ever struggled with flaky end-to-end tests, wondered how to balance speed with confidence, or wanted a clear breakdown of modern testing tools, this conversation will give you practical insights and fresh perspectives to take back to your projects.Links & ResourcesYoni Goldberg’s GitHubGoldbergYoni.comBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

29 Sep 1h 6min

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