734: The Path to More Joy in Work and Life, with Judith Joseph

Judith Joseph: High Functioning

Judith Joseph is a Columbia-trained psychiatrist and the founder of and chief investigator at Manhattan Behavioral Medicine, New York City’s premier clinical research site. She’s also a clinical assistant professor in child and adolescent psychiatry at NYU Langone Medical Center in Manhattan, and chairwoman of the Women in Medicine Board at Columbia University’s Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons. She is the author of High Functioning: Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy*.

When we think about successful leaders, we often admire those who are loving towards others, can tolerate painful times, and know how to delay gratification. Those are all such important traits – and when we overindex on them, can become counter-productive. In this conversation, Judith and I explore when it’s no longer working and how to find the joy again.

Key Points

• Many people who are experiencing high-functioning depression don’t realize it.
• High-functioning depression is often triggered by trauma. That can be major trauma, but it can also be more common forms of trauma like divorce, workplace conflict, legal issues, and many more.
• Anhedonia is one of the most common ways high-functioning depression reveals itself. It looks like not seeking out joyful activities and also not experiencing joy in activities that used to bring joy.
• Masochism is the other common way high-functioning depression shows up. It manifests as a pattern of self-defeating, people-pleasing behavior.
• The “superpowers” that come with high-functioning depression are viewed by others and society as strengths. However, over-indexing on being loving, tolerating pain, and delayed gratification are counter-productive over time.
• Validation is a starting point for healing. Each person is unique and sometimes it’s helpful to begin with movies or other creative works that help you recognize yourself.

Resources Mentioned

• High Functioning: Overcome Your Hidden Depression and Reclaim Your Joy* by Judith Joseph

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

• What to Do With Your Feelings, with Lori Gottlieb (episode 438)
• The Mindset Leaders Need to Address Burnout, with Christina Maslach (episode 608)
• Transcend Leadership Struggles Through Your Strengths, with Lisa Cummings (episode 692)

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