The Strategic Genius Behind Trump's Chaos - Jeffrey Sonnenfeld

This episode is about understanding something most people get wrong about Donald Trump: what looks like chaos is often very deliberate. I sat down with Jeffrey Sonnenfeld, who’s studied Trump for decades, to break down the strategy, the psychology, and the playbook behind it all. Whether you agree with him or not, you need to understand how he operates. Jeffrey Sonnenfeld is the Senior Associate Dean for Leadership Studies and Lester Crown Professor in Management Practice at the Yale School of Management, as well as founder and president of the Chief Executive Leadership Institute, a nonprofit educational and research institute focused on CEO leadership and corporate governance. He has authored eight books and his work is regularly cited by the general media such as: BusinessWeek, Forbes, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, Newsweek, Time, the Economist, the Financial Times, the Washington Post, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, FOX, NBC, ABC as well as PBS, and he is a staff contributor for CNBC and a staff columnist for FORTUNE, TIME, Chief Executive, and Corporate Board Member. Get his new book, Trump's Ten Commandments: Strategic Lessons from the Trump Leadership Toolbox, which is out today, March 31, 2026, here: https://a.co/d/083MxKTx I blurbed the book, saying, "I was charmed by Donald Trump, worked for him, and then also saw his dangerous flaws. Some treat him as the village idiot or a madman because of his unorthodox impulses, and that he may not have been the top finance, econ, or history student at Wharton. Critics are as wrong to discount his communication genius and street savvy as others are to deify him. Sonnenfeld is the first scholar to reveal just how Trump operates, the method behind the magic and malice—lessons needed to protect our nation.” Anthony Scaramucci is the founder and managing partner of SkyBridge, a global alternative investment firm, and founder and chairman of SALT, a global thought leadership forum and venture studio. 📚Pre-order my next book, All the Wrong Moves: How Three Catastrophic Decisions Led to the Rise of Trump, out on the 17th of September in the UK and the 22nd of September in the US: ⁠https://linktr.ee/anthonyscaramucci Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices