Full: Episode 066 of The Question with Ben Callahan & Laura Kalbag on The Design System Learning Curve

The Question Episode 066: The Design System Learning Curve with Ben Callahan & Laura Kalbag

Ben and Laura lead the community through a conversation about how people learn design systems, revealing that 75% feel qualified despite most being self-taught. The discussion explores whether the field needs W3C-style industry standards, with answers nearly evenly split between yes, no, and other. Community members share insights on multidisciplinary backgrounds, the value of peers and mentorship, the challenge of articulating shared problems and values across organizations, and the tension between standardization and meeting teams where they are.

Introduction to Design Systems (00:00)
- Welcome and overview of the episode topic
- Ben introduces Laura Kalbag as co-host
- Laura's background as designer-developer with accessibility expertise
- Early adoption of design systems (writing about them since 2012)
- Current work with Penpot on educational materials
- Book: Accessibility for Everyone (going free online with audiobook)

Exploring the Design System Learning Curve (00:00)
- How The Question works: survey format and community participation
- 77 responses from 1,025 practitioners
- Four key questions about learning and industry standards
- First question results: Do you feel qualified? (75% yes, 17% no, 8% other)
- Themes: constant references to peers, mentorship, and multidisciplinary backgrounds
- Standards question showing nearly even split (yes/no/other)

Engaging with the Community: Collaborative Learning (05:16)
- Laura's opening question: Where would you tell a new designer to start?
- Christine: Point to thought leaders (Brad Frost, Dan Mall, Jina Anne, Nathan Curtis)
- Recommendation to work in product/UX roles first before systems
- Importance of systems thinking - looking at things holistically
- Ismael: Value of product management skills and understanding users
- Learning HTML/CSS fundamentals, semantic structure, and inheritance
- Laura: HTML as accessible starting point for newcomers

Mentorship and Guidance in Design Systems (08:57)
- Greg: "The people who see systems are the ones who make them"
- Systems thinking as natural progression for some practitioners
- Learning from industry leaders but adapting to your specific context
- Disclaimer needed: what works for IBM or Spotify may not work for you
- Guy: Ask "why" someone wants to get into design systems first
- Understanding the process, not just copying outputs
- Risk of burnout from always seeing systems and implications
- Danger of over-codifying and creating restrictive structures

Understanding Your Motivation for Design Systems (17:52)
- Different aspects: code, coordination, fame, specific challenges
- Tailoring guidance based on individual motivations and goals
- Jeremy Keith quote: Design system doc sites are like social media (only show the good)

The Unique Nature of Your Design System (18:21)
- Austin: Working at Bass Pro Shops vs. big tech companies
- Challenge of resources not fitting organizational context
- Greg: "Be happy you don't have their problems"
- Looking at intricate systems born from problems you don't have
- Blessing of not needing those complex solutions
- Focus on the problems that are unique to your users

Embedding Values in Design Systems (20:12)
- Laura: We embed our values in the design systems we create
- Risk of copying big tech values that don't align with your mission
- Small Technology Foundation example: creating alternatives to big tech
- Question: Are you taking on values that don't represent your product?

Imposter Syndrome in Design Systems (21:08)
- Greg: First time experiencing true imposter syndrome in nearly two decades
- Reading industry masters and feeling inadequate
- Redwoods community response: appreciate not having their problems
- Shift in perspective about own work in the space
- Focus on what you can do that's more interesting for your users

Identifying Gaps in Design System Learning (24:44)
- Christine: Communication between teams as huge blind spot
- Building systems with one product in mind defeats the purpose
- Style guides vs. true systems serving multiple products
- Need for people at all skill levels to share their learning
- Missing links in the learning chain
- Everyone has responsibility to share what they're learning

The Importance of Change Management (26:34)
- Yesenia: Change management as biggest success or failure factor
- Getting people to change what they're doing
- Adapting communication to organizational context
- Relationship-driven vs. storytelling-driven organizations
- Mismatch in communication styles leads to failure
- Book recommendation: Switch by Chip and Dan Heath
- Not trained in change management but must do it anyway

The People Side of Design Systems (29:32)
- Little focus on people side in survey responses
- Austin's revelation: "This is about people" shifted everything
- Meet people where they're at instead of holding meetings no one attends
- Attend their standups and see how design system can help
- Laura: Tooling companies dependent on sharp folks doing cultural work
- Standards should be about processes for creating systems, not systems themselves

Education and Management in Design Systems (32:21)
- Austin: Reaching out on LinkedIn begging for mentorship conversations
- Learning about program/product manager role for design systems
- Convincing organizations to commit to necessary roles
- Taylor's meta observation: We're at a maturation point in the field
- Early ICs now moving into director/manager/lead roles
- Phase two of design systems establishment
- Built-in layers of experience we didn't have years ago

The Evolution of Design Systems (36:07)
- Taylor: Roles and understanding have changed in the ecosystem
- Learning paths for different roles (designer to system designer, etc.)
- Need for curated resources with markers in time
- Annotating when content becomes outdated
- Community-led approaches vs. top-down certification
- Standards question discussion: W3C-style standards or community curation?
- Stephen: Focus on articulating shared problems and values across organizations
- Greg: Extending HTML patterns and elevating emerging needs
- Component galleries focused on user problems and solutions
- Open source templates for education (tokens, variables, theming)
- Meeting teams where they are vs. pushing standards
- Gratitude for community participation and thoughtful answers

Resources
- Recap of Episode 055 with Lauren LoPrete on Managing your Systems Brain (https://bit.ly/3HTh89a)
- To Be a Leader of Systems by Hazel Weakly (https://hazelweakly.me/blog/to-be-a-leader-of-systems/)
- Ben on LinkedIn (https://bit.ly/3T6rd5S)
- Laura on LinkedIn (https://bit.ly/4hI9g8v)
- Get The Question in your Inbox (https://bit.ly/3U1hdf3)
- Redwoods Design System Community (https://bit.ly/44lzHL5)