We're Winning the Race to Replace Ourselves (with Tristan Harris and Dawn Nakagawa)

The people racing to build artificial general intelligence tell us this rush to the future is inevitable. It reads like a forecast, but works like an alibi. If nothing can stop the race, then no one driving it is responsible for where it ends. And only the fear of humanity losing together can end it. In this conversation from May 2026, Tristan Harris argues the race is not preordained, just the hardest coordination problem humanity has ever faced, and one nobody has seriously tried to solve. Harris co-founded the Center for Humane Technology; he was a driving force behind "The Social Dilemma" and a new film: "The AI Doc: Or How I Became an Apocaloptimist." After watching bad incentives wreck social media, he warns where they lead this time: every country automating labor at once and mutually assured political revolution. Subscribe to the Berggruen Institute on YouTube to be the first to listen to new Futurology episodes: https://www.youtube.com/@Berggrueninst Catch up on the Futurology conversation with full episodes on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyYCSKWs8iYgjg-mhu-EuhTrG0-adrb0c Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/futurology/id1821718921 Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvHP6KlXrD5ysfygxk?si=XB2qyyGjT2ONMTd5XUKJAg&nd=1&dlsi=ac8cda6751834298 Mentioned in this Episode: The AI Doc: Or How I Became an Apocaloptimist — Daniel Roher and Charlie Tyrell (Documentary, 2026) The Social Dilemma — Jeff Orlowski (Documentary, 2020) The Day After — Nicholas Meyer (TV Film, 1983) Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind — Yuval Noah Harari (Book, 2011) The Ministry for the Future — Kim Stanley Robinson (Book, 2020) Amusing Ourselves to Death — Neil Postman (Book, 1985) The Intelligence Curse — Luke Drago and Rudolf Laine (Essay Series, 2025) Statement on Superintelligence — Future of Life Institute (Open Statement, 2025) AGI Ruin: A List of Lethalities — Eliezer Yudkowsky (Essay, 2022) Where to find Tristan Harris: Personal site: https://www.tristanharris.com/ Center for Humane Technology: https://www.humanetech.com/ Your Undivided Attention (podcast): https://www.humanetech.com/podcast The AI Doc: Or How I Became an Apocaloptimist: https://www.humanetech.com/landing/the-ai-doc X: https://x.com/tristanharris Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tristanharris/ Show ideas and feedback? Email: futurology@berggruen.org Learn more about the Berggruen Institute https://www.berggruen.org Follow Futurology! Instagram: / futurologypod Twitter/X: / futurologypod Tiktok: / futurologypod Facebook: / berggrueninst LinkedIn: / berggrueninst Bluesky: / futurologypod Credits Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, & Jason Hoch Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, & Nathalia Ramos Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney Theme Music: Marcus Bagala Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli & Kyle Scott Wilson Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland for the Berggruen Institute in Los Angeles, California.