How Do You Get a Documentary Made? Ask the Woman Who Co-Runs RKO

Do you have a documentary, or do you have a Wikipedia entry?

Somebody decides whether your documentary gets made. Sophia Dilley is one of those people. She runs Concord Originals, the division behind Stax: Soulsville U.S.A. on HBO, and she is Co-President of RKO, which Concord bought in June 2025 along with more than 5,000 titles including King Kong, Citizen Kane and It's a Wonderful Life. In this episode she gives away the three questions she asks before her team commits to anything.

In Episode 286, Christian sits down with Sophia Dilley, Executive Vice President of Concord Originals and Co-President of RKO, to talk about how a project gets chosen, how to reach out to someone far above you, and how music rights for film work when the budget you have is the only budget there is.

The spine of the conversation is a question Dilley asks before her team commits to anything: is this a Wikipedia story we're telling? If the whole thing is already available in twelve seconds of searching, there may not be a film in it. Around that sit her two other threshold questions, a working answer to why the documentary business feels impossible right now, and the plainest reassurance in the episode. "It's scary," she says. "It's scary for everybody." Along the way: a punk band that played CBGB's, a production designer father who left for set at four forty-five in the morning, Roger Deakins as a case study in how to write to someone you admire, and the difference between distribution rights and derivative rights, which is the thing almost everyone (including Christian!) got wrong about the RKO deal. If you have ever been told that music rights for film are impossible on an independent budget, she has a different answer.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• What Concord actually acquired when it bought RKO, and why distribution rights and derivative rights are two entirely different things
• The three questions Sophia Dilley asks before committing to any story
• How to tell whether you have a film or a Wikipedia entry
• The difference between sync and publishing, and why one song can mean two negotiations with two different companies
• What to say to a music company when the budget you have is the only budget there is
• Why a music documentary takes five years on average, and what eats the time
• Why a rejection is usually about the marketplace rather than about your film
• How to open a door with someone you admire without being, in her words, a scary, creepy fan
• What it looks like inside a company that generates most of its projects out of its own catalog

CHAPTERS

0:00 What Concord Actually Bought With RKO

5:34 From CBGB's to Running a Studio Division

11:42 Reaching Out to People Above You

16:32 Why Distribution Is Scary for Everybody

21:26 Who Are You Really Competing With?

26:02 Music Rights for Film: Sync and Publishing

29:49 Why a Doc Takes Five Years

34:54 How Does She Decide What Gets Made?

41:44 Women, Allies, and Your Replacement

46:05 What if You Can't Afford the Song?

50:05 Closing Argument and DocuView Deja Vu

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

How do you get music rights for a documentary?

You need permission from more than one owner. The song belongs to a publisher and the specific recording belongs to a label, so most documentaries need both a sync license and a master use license. On Stax: Soulsville U.S.A., that meant clearing more than thirty artists, multiple publishers and several estates. Concord Originals EVP Sophia Dilley says the first step is acknowledging you need those rights before you build the film around them.

What if I can't afford to license a song for my film?

Call anyway, and be honest about the budget. Sophia Dilley advises independent filmmakers to say who they are, name what the film was made for, show the actual scene the song would sit under, and ask directly for help. "Behind every door at every music company, there are real people," she says. A studio with a real budget cannot use that approach. A genuine independent often can.

How long does it take to make a music documentary?

Longer than most filmmakers expect. Sophia Dilley of Concord Originals puts the average at five years, at least. Stax: Soulsville U.S.A. began in 2018, when a colleague walked into her office with the story, and premiered on HBO in May 2024. Much of that time goes to music rights, estates and publishers rather than to production, because every stakeholder connected to the music has to be brought on side first.

Who owns RKO now?

Concord Originals acquired RKO Pictures in June 2025, but the deal is narrower than it sounds. Distribution rights to the classic RKO library remain with Turner. What Concord bought are the derivative rights, meaning remakes, sequels, prequels, story and stage rights to more than 5,000 titles the studio produced in-house. Sophia Dilley serves as Co-President of RKO, which continues to operate under Concord Originals.

DOCUVIEW DEJA VU PICKS

Sophia Dilley's picks:

• New York Doll (2005), directed by Greg Whiteley. A deep cut about Arthur "Killer" Kane of the New York Dolls and his search for his own history. Dilley notes that Whiteley went on to make Cheer, and the warmth is already here.
• Science Fair (2018), directed by Cristina Costantini and Darren Foster. She saw it at SXSW, where it won the Audience Award. Teenagers at the international science fair, and, in her words, so much magic in following a real human story.

SPONSORED BY

This episode is brought to you by Virgil Films Entertainment. Over 25 years of distribution experience, from Super Size Me and the Oscar-nominated Restrepo to Forks Over Knives and Speed is Expensive. If you are a filmmaker having trouble with distribution, talk to Virgil.

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ABOUT THE GUEST

Sophia Dilley is Executive Vice President of Concord Originals and Co-President of RKO. Concord hired her in 2018 to build a content strategy, and in 2021 she launched Concord Originals, the company's film and television division. Her father was a production designer, so she grew up on movie sets watching what the work actually costs. Before film, she thought she would go into music: piano, violin, voice lessons, and a punk band in high school that played CBGB's in New York.

ABOUT CONCORD ORIGINALS

Concord Originals is the film and television arm of Concord, developing screen stories out of one of the largest independent music and theatrical catalogs in the world. Most of its projects are self-generated, which Dilley describes as the division's whole remit: take what is already under the roof and find a new life for it. Because the catalog is the source, music rights for film sit at the center of nearly every project the division takes on.

Recent and upcoming work discussed in this episode:

• Stax: Soulsville U.S.A. (HBO, 2024), the four-part series directed by Jamila Wignot. Peabody winner, nominated for two Emmys.
• Billy Preston: That's the Way God Planned It (2026), directed by Paris Barclay, in theaters through Abramorama.
• Pretty Ugly: The Story of the Lunachicks (2026), directed by Ilya Chaiken, brought to Concord by Betsy West and Julie Cohen.
• Films on Billie Holiday, Cyndi Lauper, Shari Lewis and Lamb Chop, and Creedence Clearwater Revival, with Robert Johnson and Fania Records on the way.

ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST

Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers from Ken Burns to first-time directors. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide.

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• Soulsville U.S.A.: The Story of Stax Records by Rob Bowman, the book behind the film: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2775862
• Documentary First Episode 277, Teddy Cannon on music rights and licensing, the other side of this conversation: https://pod.fo/e/413f3a