“The Skinny on American Intelligence & the Law” – with D.C. “Super Lawyer” Mark Zaid
SpyCast19 Maalis 2024

“The Skinny on American Intelligence & the Law” – with D.C. “Super Lawyer” Mark Zaid

Summary Mark Zaid (X, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss American intelligence and the law. You’ve heard of a “lawyer to the stars,” Mark is the “lawyer to the spies” What You’ll Learn Intelligence The quirks of being a lawyer in this space How the Espionage Act works in practice The trial of the Rosenbergs The origins of FOIA and its purpose The Legal foundations underpinning espionage and intelligence Reflections Challenging authority The delicate balance of secrecy And much, much more … Quotes of the Week “I still love working every day, 30 years later, because there's still something new. As much as I fight for declassification and transparency, I will at times also see information and learn of events where I go, “Oh, I get it. Yeah, that stuff cannot be known. That's incredible what we did. That's pretty wild.” – Mark Zaid. Resources SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* Agent of Betrayal, FBI Spy Robert Hanssen with CBS’ Major Garrett and Friends (2023) David Petraeus on Ukraine & Intelligence with the former CIA Director & 4* General (2023) Havana Syndrome – A Panel featuring Nicky Woolf, Marc Polymeropoulos, and Mark Zaid (2023) How Artificial Intelligence is Changing the Spy Game with Mike Susong (2023) *Beginner Resources* What Is a Whistleblower? Protections, Law, Importance, and Example, W. Kenton, Investopedia (2022) [Short article] What is a Lawyer? American Bar Association (2019) [Short article] Legal System Basics, CrashCourse, YouTube (2015) [8 min. video] DEEPER DIVE Books State of Silence: The Espionage Act and the Rise of America's Secrecy Regime, S. Lebovic (Basic Books, 2023) Ethel Rosenberg, A. Sebba (Griffin, 2022) Spies on Trial: True Tales of Espionage in the Courtroom, C. C. Kuhne (Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, 2019) Primary Sources A Letter from Aldrich Ames on Polygraph Testing (2000) Whistle Blower Protection Act (1989) DoD Polygraph Program (1984) National Security Decision Directive 84 (1983) Inspector General Act (1978) Freedom of Information Act (1966) Administrative Procedure Act (1946) Espionage Act (1917) *Wildcard Resource* John Adams, a 2008 HBO Mini-Series chronicling the Founding Father’s role in early America John Adams, much like Mark, was a lawyer dedicated to the right to representation. Adams, ever dedicated to the honor of his profession, was the only attorney who agreed to defend the British soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre. You can read the whole trial here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jaksot(724)

From NFL to Espionage: The Story of Ernest Cuneo

From NFL to Espionage: The Story of Ernest Cuneo

He was an American spy before an American spy agency existed. NFL player Ernest Cuneo, a little known first generation Italian American, worked with British intelligence to convince the United States to join World War II, and helped lay the groundwork for modern day espionage. Thomas Maier traces Cuneo’s extraordinary life in his new book, The Invisible Spy, out March 25th.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Agent Link: The Spy Erased from History | With former FBI Counterintelligence Expert The Dirty Tricks Department with John Lisle Operation Underworld with Matthew Black Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

4 Maalis 25min

Debriefing from the Ukrainian Front

Debriefing from the Ukrainian Front

A fourth year of war in Ukraine begins. But for Lt. Col. Kyrylo Berkal, who’s been fighting since Russia first invaded in 2014, the battle for his country has raged much longer. Now, he’s second in command of the elite Third Assault Brigade, which has played a major role in critical battles against Russia and continues to develop new technologies to both gather intelligence and enhance combat techniques.  Kirt spoke to us between missions. During the conversation, he revealed his firsthand insights and experiences of the war as Ukraine keeps up the fight for independence. If you liked this episode, check out these links: An Evening with General David H. Petraeus Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Ambassador Roger D. Carstens SpyCast - “Zelensky, Ukraine & Intelligence” – with Simon Shuster Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

25 Helmi 27min

How did Harriet Tubman operate as a spy?

How did Harriet Tubman operate as a spy?

She’s known for helping to free people through the Underground Railroad, but Harriet Tubman was also a spy during the Civil War. And with the intelligence she collected, the Maryland native became the first woman to lead men into battle on gunboats down the Combahee River in South Carolina. The Combahee River Raid destroyed several vital Confederate rice plantations and liberated more than 750 people from enslavement.   Social historian Edda Fields-Black reveals new details about the raid and Tubman. And later in the episode, Ernestine Wyatt, Tubman’s great-great-great-grandniece, discusses the importance of Harriet’s espionage work and the legacy of her dedication to democracy.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: The Real Harriet Tubman African Americans in Espionage | International Spy Museum Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at spycast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

18 Helmi 30min

What's next for Kim Jong Un?

What's next for Kim Jong Un?

North Korea is growing more dangerous, but no U.S. administration has been able to crack the code on its leader Kim Jong Un. Now, there’s even less incentive for Kim to negotiate because of the support he’s getting from Russia. So what will Kim do next, and where is he vulnerable? Jung H. Pak, a former CIA analyst who served as the country’s top diplomat for North Korea, takes us inside the mind of one of the world's most opaque leaders. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Virtual Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Dr. Jung H. Pak AI and Emerging Technologies: Intelligence Opportunities & Challenges  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic,  you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

11 Helmi 30min

Campus Cloak-and-Dagger: Spies Targeting American Universities

Campus Cloak-and-Dagger: Spies Targeting American Universities

For decades, colleges and universities have been a destination for espionage. Especially in recent years, the use of international students and faculty as spies on American campuses has been particularly daunting. Why do intelligence services, both foreign and domestic, target colleges and universities? And what is there to gain on these campuses? Award-winning journalist Daniel Golden, author of the book Spy Schools, describes the timeless game.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Secret History of History: Color Wars Part II with Catherine McKinley Chinese Corporate Espionage - The Tale of the Tea Thief with Sarah Rose Declassified Dessert | How to Make Cuban Spy Ana Montes’ Cheesecake Queen of Cuba with Peter J. Lapp SpyCast | “Making Sense of China, Taiwan, & America” – Pacific Intelligence with Bonny Lin Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic,  you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

4 Helmi 27min

Agent Zo: The woman who defied the Nazis and Communists

Agent Zo: The woman who defied the Nazis and Communists

Agent Zo was the only female Polish resistance agent to reach London as a courier during WWII and the only female member of Poland's fabled 'Silent Unseen' paratroopers. Yet despite having researched Poland's wartime resistance movement, many of us have never heard of her. Why? If you liked this episode, check out these links: Agent Zo: The Extraordinary Woman Who Parachuted Into Nazi-Occupied Poland Women Spies of WWII with Ellen McCarthy, Judith L. Pearson, and Erika Robuck The Danger of the Femme Fatale Narrative Code Name Madeleine with author Arthur J. Magida Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic,  you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

28 Tammi 28min

How will President Trump handle intelligence in his second term?

How will President Trump handle intelligence in his second term?

Now that President Trump has been inaugurated, what can we expect for the intelligence community? On his first full day in his first term, he visited the CIA to voice support. But he has also displayed deep skepticism and accused spy agencies of undermining him. Beth Sanner is a highly decorated, retired career intelligence officer who briefed Trump with the President’s Daily Brief, a highly classified summary of the US most critical national security threats. She shares her thoughts on what lies ahead. If you liked this episode, check out: The President's Book of Secrets - Understanding the President’s Daily Brief (PDB) with David Priess Hot Topics: Intelligence Challenges in an Election Year Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic,  you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

21 Tammi 30min

How do you fool Russian Intelligence?

How do you fool Russian Intelligence?

Former intelligence officer Bryan Stern describes the tradecraft he used on Russian intelligence and military services to rescue an American imprisoned in Russian-occupied Ukraine. If you liked this episode check out these links to more hostage rescue stories: SpyCast - James Foley: Journalist, ISIS Hostage, Son – with His Mother Diane Foley Operación Jaque - The Daring Rescue Mission That Freed 15 Hostages Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Ambassador Roger D. Carstens Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ To learn more about Bryan’s work with Grey Bull you can visit greybullrescue.org.  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic,  you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org. This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

14 Tammi 28min

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