JSJ 343: The Power of Progressive Enhancement with Andy Bell
JavaScript Jabber11 Joulu 2018

JSJ 343: The Power of Progressive Enhancement with Andy Bell

Panel:
- Charles Max Wood
- Aimee Knight
- Chris Ferdinandi
- AJ O’Neal
Special Guest: Andy BellIn this episode, the panel talks with Andy Bell who is an independent designer and developer who uses React, Vue, and Node. Today, the panelists and the guest talk about the power of progressive enhancements. Check it out!Show Topics:0:00 – https://www.telerik.com/kendo-ui?utm_campaign=kendo-ui-awareness-jsjabber&utm_medium=social-paid&utm_source=devchattv 0:34 – Chuck: Hi! Our panel is AJ, Aimee, Chris, myself and my new show is coming out in a few weeks, which is called the http://thedevrev.com It helps you with developer’s freedom! I am super excited. Our guest is Andy Bell. Introduce yourself, please.2:00 – Guest: I am an independent designer and developer out in the U.K.2:17 – Chuck: You wrote things about Vanilla.js. I am foreshadowing a few things and let’s talk about the power and progressive enhancement.2:43 – The guest gives us definitions of power and progressive enhancements. He describes how it works. 3:10 – Chuck: I’ve heard that people would turn off JavaScript b/c it was security concern and then your progressive enhancement would make it work w/o JavaScript. I am sure there’s more than that?3:28 – The guest talks about JavaScript, dependencies, among other things. 4:40 – Chuck: Your post did make that very clear I think. I am thinking I don’t even know where to start with this. Are people using the 6th version? How far back or what are we talking about here?5:09 – Guest: You can go really far back and make it work w/o CSS.5:49 – Chris: I am a big advocate of progressive enhancement – the pushback I get these days is that there is a divide; between the broadband era and AOL dialup. Are there compelling reasons why progressive enhancements even matter?6:48 – Guest.8:05 – Panel: My family lives out in the boonies. I am aware of 50% of American don’t have fast Internet. People don’t have access to fast browsers but I don’t think they are key metric users.8:47 – Guest: It totally depends on what you need it for. It doesn’t matter if these people are paying or not.9:31 – Chris: Assuming I have a commute on the trail and it goes through a spotty section. In a scenario that it’s dependent on the JS...are we talking about 2 different things here?10:14 – Panelist chimes-in. 10:36 – Chris: I can take advantage of it even if I cannot afford a new machine.10:55 – Panel: Where would this really matter to you?11:05 – Chris: I do have a nice new laptop.11:12 – Chuck: I had to hike up to the hill (near the house) to make a call and the connection was really poor (in OK). It’s not the norm but it can happen.11:37 – Chris: Or how about the All Trails app when I am on the trail.11:52 – Guest.12:40 – Chris: I can remember at the time that the desktop sites it was popular to have...Chris: Most of those sites were inaccessible to me.13:17 – Guest.13:51 – Chuck: First-world countries will have a good connection and it’s not a big deal. If you are thinking though about your customers and where they live? Is that fair? I am thinking that my customers need to be able to access the podcast – what would you suggest? What are the things that you’d make sure is accessible to them.14:31 – Guest: I like to pick on the minimum viable experience? I think to read the transcript is important than the audio (MP3).15:47 – Chuck.15:52 – Guest: It’s a lot easier with Vue b/c you don’t’ have to set aside rendering.17:13 – AJ: I am thinking: that there is a way to start developing progressively and probably cheaper and easier to the person who is developing. If it saves us a buck and helps then we take action.17:49 – Guest: It’s much easier if you start that way and if you enhance the feature itself.18:38 – AJ: Let me ask: what are the situations where I wouldn’t / shouldn’t worry about progressive enhancements?18:57 – Guest answers the question. 19:42 – AJ: I want people to feel motivated in a place WHERE to start. Something like a blog needs Java for comments. https://vtldesign.com/web-strategy/website-design-development/hamburger-icon-flyout-menu-website-navigation/ is mentioned, too. 20:20 – Guest.21:05 – Chris: Can we talk about code?21:16 – Aimee: This is the direction I wanted to go. What do you mean by that – building your applications progressively?https://andy-bell.design/writing/21:44 – Guest.22:13 – Chuck: I use stock overflow!22:20 – Guest.22:24 – Chuck: I mean that’s what Chris uses!22:33 – Guest (continues).23:42 – Aimee.23:54 – Chris.24:09 – Chris24:16 – Chris: Andy what do you think about that?24:22 – Guest: Yes, that’s good.24:35 – Chris: Where it falls apart is the resistance to progressive enhancements that it means that your approach has to be boring?25:03 – Guest answers the question. The guest mentions modern CSS and modern JavaScript are mentioned along with tooling.25:50 – Chuck: My issue is that when we talk about this (progressive enhancement) lowest common denominator and some user at some level (slow network) and then they can access it. Then the next level (better access) can access it. I start at the bottom and then go up. Then when they say progressive enhancement I get lost. Should I scrap it and then start over or what?26:57 – Guest: If it’s feasible do it and then set a timeline up.27:42 – Chuck: You are saying yes do it a layer at a time – but my question is HOW? What parts can I pair back? Are there guidelines to say: do this first and then how to test?28:18 – https://sentry.io/welcome/ 29:20 – Guest: Think about the user flow. What does the user want to do at THIS point? Do you need to work out the actual dependencies?30:31 – Chuck: Is there a list of those capabilities somewhere? So these users can use it this way and these users can use it that way?30:50 – Guest answers the question. 31:03 – Guest: You can pick out the big things.31:30 – Chuck: I am using this feature in the browser...31:41 – Guest.31:46 – Chris: I think this differently than you Andy – I’ve stopped caring if a browser supports something new. I am fine using CSS grid and if your browser doesn’t support it then I don’t have a problem with that. I get hung up on, though if this fails can they still get the content? If they have no access to these – what should they be able to do?Note: “Cutting the Mustard Test” is mentioned. 33:37 – Guest.33:44 – Chuck: Knowing your users and if it becomes a problem then I will figure it out.34:00 – Chris: I couldn’t spare the time to make it happen right now b/c I am a one-man shop.34:20 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 34:36 –Chris: Check out links below for my product.34:54 – AJ: A lot of these things are in the name: progressive. 36:20 – https://andy-bell.design 38:51 – Chris: Say that they haven’t looked at it all before. Do you mind talking about these things and what the heck is a web component?39:14 – The guest gives us his definition of what a web component is. 40:02 – Chuck: Most recent episode in Angular about web components, but that was a few years ago. See links below for that episode.40:25 – Aimee.40:31 – Guest: Yes, it’s a lot like working in Vue and web components. The concepts are very similar.41:22 – Chris: Can someone please give us an example? A literal slideshow example?41:45 – Guest answers the question. 45:07 – Chris.45:12 – Guest: It’s a framework that just happens to use web components and stuff to help.45:54 – Chuck: Yeah they make it easier (Palmer). Yeah there is a crossover with Palmer team and other teams. I can say that b/c I have talked with people from both teams. Anything else?46:39 – Chuck: Where do they go to learn more?46:49 – Guest: https://webcomponents.club And my Twitter! (See links below.)47:33 – Chuck: I want to shout-out about https://devlifts.io that has $19 a month to help you with physical goals. Or you can get the premium slot! It’s terrific stuff. Sign-up with DEVCHAT code but there is a limited number of slots and there is a deadline, too. Just try it! They have a podcast, too!49:16 – Aimee: http://podcast.devlifts.io 49:30 – Chuck: Picks!END – https://www.cachefly.com Links:
- https://www.javascript.com
- https://reactjs.org
- https://elixir-lang.org
- Ember.js
- https://vuejs.org
- https://golang.org/project/
- http://jquery.com
- https://nodejs.org/en/
- https://github.com/GoogleChrome/puppeteer
- https://www.cypress.io
- https://devchat.tv/adv-in-angular/115-aia-polymer-and-web-components-with-angular-2-with-rob-dodson/
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030 JSJ Learning & Teaching JavaScript with Noel Rappin

030 JSJ Learning & Teaching JavaScript with Noel Rappin

PanelNoel Rappin (twitter github blog) Jamison Dance (twitter github blog) Charles Max Wood (twitter github Teach Me To Code Intro to CoffeeScript) AJ O’Neal (twitter github blog) Discussion 00:52 - Works in training and talent development for Groupon00:56 - Author of Rails Test Prescriptions and upcoming Master Space and Time with JavaScript01:21 - Writing a book about JavaScript02:33 - Focus of the bookPart 1: Jasmine and jQuery and the JavaScript Object Model Part 2: Extended examples of jQuery Part 3: Backbone Part 4: Ember 03:46 - Self-published authors05:15 - Approaches and mindsets to learning JavaScript06:04 - “Gotchas!” and bad features in Javascript09:17 - Modeling JavaScript for beginners11:23 - (AJ joins the podcast)11:42 - Resources/Classes for learning JavaScriptGood Parts Book: Douglas Crockford JavaScript Patterns: Stoyan Stefanov Eloquent JavaScript: A Modern Introduction to Programming: Marijn Haverbeke Maintainable JavaScript: Nicholas C. Zakas 13:54 - Hiring people with JavaScript experience at Groupon15:12 - Training workshops17:00 - Getting new hires up to speed quicklyPairing Mentoring Lectures Workshops 21:38 - Book LearningYou can learn at your own pace But it’s hard to ask questions to a book 22:51 - How Noel gained expertise in JavaScript24:38 - Code reading and learning to program a language26:18 - Teaching people JavaScript as their very first language31:55 - Classroom layout33:42 - Online trainingKahn Academy Computer ScienceCode AcademyStarter League40:00 - Finding a mentorStack Overflow PicksShrines by Purity Ring (Jamison) Learnable Programming: Bret Victor (Jamison) Mob Software: Richard P. Gabriel & Ron Goldman (Jamison) Monoprice.com (AJ) ZREO: Zelda Reorchestrated (AJ) The Official Twitter App (Chuck) Fluid App (Chuck) Try Jasmine! (Noel) Justin Searls (Noel) The Atrocity Archives: Charles Stross (Noel) Futurity: A Musical by The Lisps (Noel) Transcript NOEL: I’m trying to figure out where the chat is in this stupid Skype interface.JAMISON: Just imagine the worst place it could possibly be and that’s where it is.[This episode is sponsored by ComponentOne, makers of Wijmo. If you need stunning UI elements or awesome graphs and charts, then go to wijmo.com and check them out.][Hosting and bandwidth provided by The Blue Box Group. Check them out at bluebox.net]CHUCK: Hey everybody and welcome to Episode 30 of the JavaScript Jabber show! This week on our panel we have, Jamison Dance.JAMISON: Hey guys!CHUCK: I’m Charles Max Wood from devchat.tv and this week, we have a special guest and that’s Noel Rappin!NOEL: Hey everybody!CHUCK: For the people who don’t know who you are, you want to introduce yourself, Noel?NOEL:  Sure. I currently work in training and talent development for Groupon. And I am the author of previously “Rails Test Prescriptions” and currently a self-published book called “Master Time and Space with JavaScript”, which you can get at noelrappin.com. I need to spell that out, right? N-o-e-l-r-a-p-p-i-n.comCHUCK: So I’m little curious, before we get into the topic which is learning and teaching JavaScript, how did you get into writing a book about JavaScript? What’s your background there?NOEL: You know, it actually relates to teaching and learning JavaScript. I think, I was like… a lot of long time web devs. I spent my first round as a web consultant in around, turn of the century 2000’s. I spent time trying to talk clients out of JavaScript stuff because it was such a pain in the neck. And I kind of got away from it for awhile and came back a couple of years ago to realize that basically, everything had changed and they were actually usable tools now.And last summer, I was working with a… at that time,Special Guest: Noel Rappin. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

4 Loka 201251min

029 JSJ Bower.js with Alex MacCaw and Jacob Thornton

029 JSJ Bower.js with Alex MacCaw and Jacob Thornton

PanelAlex MacCaw (twitter github blog) Jacob Thornton (Fat) (twitter github blog) AJ O’Neal (twitter github blog) Jamison Dance (twitter github blog) Joe Eames (twitter github blog) Charles Max Wood (twitter github Teach Me To Code Intro to CoffeeScript) DiscussionBower.js (web) Bower.js (twitter) Bower.js (github) SXSW Package managers ender-js BPM hem Benefits Small components Yeoman.io Browserify Dependencies Segmenting the community Transports Mozilla (github) Commands Building an actual package manager node.js Moving parts of a package manager Events Challenges Ember.js Mobile web application development Google Chrome apps Desktop apps in JavaScript PicksKershaw Ken Onion Tactical Blur Folding Knife (AJ) The xx: Coexist (Jamison) Neil Armstrong’s Solemn but Not Sad Memorial Cathedral (Jamison) Collective Soul Cat (Jamison) Amazon Prime (Joe) Star Trek Original Series on Amazon Prime (Joe) Functional Programming Principles in Scala: Martin Odersky (Joe) Domo (hiring!) (Joe) Delegation in Google (Chuck) Civilization IV (Chuck) Fujitsu ScanSnap (Chuck) Bill Nye’s Twitter Account getting suspended was not cool (Jacob) Github + Twitter profile redesign (Jacob) Avoid 7/11 Hot Dog Flavored Chips (Jacob) The Big Picture (Alex) CoffeeScriptRedux (Alex) Stripe (Alex) Special Guests: Alex MacCaw and Jacob Thornton. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

2 Loka 201247min

028 JSJ Greenfield vs Brownfield Projects

028 JSJ Greenfield vs Brownfield Projects

PanelJoe Eames (twitter github blog) AJ O'Neal (twitter github blog) Jamison Dance (twitter github blog) Charles Max Wood (twitter github Teach Me To Code Rails Summer Camp) DiscussionGreenfield - Brand New Project Brownfield - Older Applications, Legacy Code Poopfield - PHP Development Dealing With Legacy Code Use Tests Working Effectively with Legacy Code - Michael Feathers Risk When is the big rewrite the correct answer? PicksJoseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling (AJ) Roll Up Crepes (AJ) Calepin (AJ) Bernie (Jamison) Dota 2 (Jamison) Derrick Storm Novels - A Brewing Storm, A Bloody Storm, A Raging Storm (Joe) Castle (Joe) X-Wing Mineatures (Joe) PEX For Fun (Joe) MLG Championship - Starcraft Duel (Joe) VESA 75 to 100 Adapter (Chuck) LG Tone Bluetooth Headphones (Chuck) Transcript JOE: Listen baby, it won’t get weird.JAMISON: [Chuckles]AJ: That sounds... weird.JAMISON: [Chuckles] Too Late.[Hosting and bandwidth provided by the Blue Box Group. Check them out at bluebox.net.][This episode is sponsored by Harvest. I use Harvest to track time, track subcontractor’s time and invoice clients. Their time tracking is really simple and easy to use. Invoicing includes a ‘pay now’ function by credit card and PayPal. And you can sign up at getharvest.com. Use the code RF to get 50% off your first month.]CHUCK: Hey everybody and welcome to episode 28 of the JavaScript Jabber show. This week on our panel, we have AJ O’Neil.AJ: Yo, yo, yo comin’ at you live from the second story of an office base in Orem, Utah.CHUCK:  We also have Jamison Dance.JAMISON: Hi, I’m Jamison Dance and I am super excited, because today iTV just announced that we are doing the Nintendo TV thing; and I haven’t been able to talk about it for, like, six months, so it’s a good day.CHUCK: Cool. We also have Joe Eames.JOE: Comin at you semi live from American Fork, Utah.CHUCK: And I am Charles Max Wood from devchat.tv. Tim is not with us this week because he is in China. I thought I’d point that out, because I think it’s cool. Anyway, this week we are going to be talking about Greenfield versus Brownfield projects. It was kind of funny when we were getting ready to do this, some of the panels were like, Green/Brown?JAMISON: Yeah, I have to pull Josh Susser and ask for a definition.CHUCK: So, as far as I understand it, there are some new --- to this, depending to who you talk to, but mostly, Greenfield is a brand new project with few or no decisions made and no code written for it yet. And Brownfield projects are effectively older applications usually associated with legacy code. You know, so it’s an application that already has code written toward it. Typically, it is out there in the world doing whatever it is supposed to do.JAMISON: Now, I want to put this question delicately. Are there any fecal connotations to the color ‘brown’ in Brownfield?CHUCK: Only if it’s PHP.JOE: [Chuckles]. Then it’s Poopfield Development?CHUCK: [Chuckles]. Okay, we are not gonna go down that tangent.[Laughter]AJ: Because, I mean honestly, when Mormons make jokes about crap, it never sounds good anyway.CHUCK: Yeah. So anyway, how many of you guys have actually worked on a real Greenfield project? Like been there from day one, that you have it just built yourself.JAMISON: I guess it depends on your definition. Maybe. So we have lots of services at ITV, so I've been part of spinning up completely new services that didn’t exist. We had other sort of similar things already, so some of the decisions were already made for, so we kind of had a style established. But it was still like a separate project.AJ: Do you forget us so soon, Jamison?JAMISON: [Chuckles].AJ: You don’t remember ever working here or getting started…JAMISON: I do. I don’t remember Greenfield stuff; I remember new features, I mean, Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

21 Syys 201214min

027 JSJ The JavaScript Community

027 JSJ The JavaScript Community

The panelists discuss the JavaScript community at large. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

5 Syys 201249min

026 JSJ Code Organization and Reuse

026 JSJ Code Organization and Reuse

The panelists talk about code organization and reuse. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

28 Elo 201256min

025 JSJ Require.js with James Burke

025 JSJ Require.js with James Burke

The panelists talk to James Burke about Require.js.Special Guest: James Burke . Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

21 Elo 201235min

024 JSJ Strata.js with Michael Jackson

024 JSJ Strata.js with Michael Jackson

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

14 Elo 201243min

023 JSJ Phantom.js with Ariya Hidayat

023 JSJ Phantom.js with Ariya Hidayat

The panelists talk to Ariya Hidayat about Phantom.js.Special Guest: Ariya Hidayat. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

7 Elo 201240min

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