JSJ 341: Testing in JavaScript with Gil Tayar
JavaScript Jabber27 Marras 2018

JSJ 341: Testing in JavaScript with Gil Tayar

Panel:
  • Aimee Knight
  • AJ O’Neal
  • Charles Max Wood
Special Guest: Gil Tayar In this episode, the panel talks with Gil Tayar who is currently residing in Tel Aviv and is a software engineer. He is currently the Senior Architect at Applitools in Israel. The panel and the guest talk about the different types of tests and when/how one is to use a certain test in a particular situation. They also mention Node, React, Selenium, Puppeteer, and much more!Show Topics:0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:35 – Chuck: Our panel is AJ, Aimee, myself – and our special guest is Gil Tayar. Tell us why you are famous!1:13 – Gil talks about where he resides and his background. 2:27 – Chuck: What is the landscape like now with testing and testing tools now?2:39 – Guest: There is a huge renaissance with the JavaScript community. Testing has moved forward in the frontend and backend. Today we have lots of testing tools. We can do frontend testing that wasn’t possible 5 years ago. The major change was React.The guest talks about Node, React, tools, and more!4:17 – Aimee: I advocate for tests and testing. There is a grey area though...how do you treat that? If you have to get something into production, but it’s not THE thing to get into production, does that fall into product or...what?5:02 – Guest: We decided to test everything in the beginning. We actually cam through and did that and since then I don’t think I can use the right code without testing. There are a lot of different situations, though, to consider.The guest gives hypothetical situations that people could face. 6:27 – Aimee.6:32 – Guest: The horror to changing code without tests, I don’t know, I haven’t done that for a while. You write with fear in your heart. Your design is driven by fear, and not what you think is right. In the beginning don’t write those tests, but...7:22 – Aimee: I totally agree and I could go on and on and on.7:42 – Panel: I want to do tests when I know they will create value. I don’t want to do it b/c it’s a mundane thing. Secondly, I find that some times I am in a situation where I cannot write the test b/c I would have to know the business logic is correct. I am in this discovery mode of what is the business logic? I am not just building your app.I guess I just need advice in this area, I guess.8:55 – Guest gives advice to panelist’s question. He mentions how there are two schools of thought.10:20 – Guest: Don’t mock too much.10:54 – Panel: Are unit tests the easiest? I just reach for unit testing b/c it helps me code faster. But 90% of my code is NOT that.11:18 – Guest: Exactly! Most of our test is glue – gluing together a bunch of different stuff! Those are best tested as a medium-sized integration suite.12:39 – Panel: That seems like a lot of work, though! I loathe the database stuff b/c they don’t map cleanly. I hate this database stuff.13:06 – Guest: I agree, but don’t knock the database, but knock the level above the database.13:49 – Guest: Yes, it takes time! Building the script and the testing tools, but when you have it then adding to it is zero time. Once you are in the air it’s smooth sailing.14:17 – Panel: I guess I can see that. I like to do the dumb-way the first time. I am not clear on the transition.14:47 – Guest: Write the code, and then write the tests.The guest gives a hypothetical situation on how/when to test in a certain situation. 16:25 – Panel: Can you talk about that more, please?16:50 – Guest: Don’t have the same unit – do browser and business logic stuff separated. The real business logic stuff needs to be above that level. First principle is separation of concerns.18:04 – Panel talks about dependency interjection and asks a question. 18:27 – Guest: What I am talking about very, very light inter-dependency interjection.19:19 – Panel: You have a main function and you are doing requires in the main function. You are passing the pieces of that into the components that need it.19:44 – Guest: I only do it when it’s necessary; it’s not a religion for me. I do it only for those layers that I know will need to be mocked; like database layers, etc.20:09 – Panel.20:19 – Guest: It’s taken me 80 years to figure out, but I have made plenty of mistakes a long the way. A test should run for 2-5 minutes max for package.20:53 – Panel: What if you have a really messy legacy system? How do you recommend going into that? Do you write tests for things that you think needs to get tested?21:39 – Guest answers the question and mentions Selenium! 24:27 – Panel: I like that approach.24:35 – Chuck: When you say integration test what do you mean?24:44 – Guest: Integration tests aren’t usually talked about. For most people it’s tests that test the database level against the database. For me, the integration tests are taking a set of classes as they are in the application and testing them together w/o the...so they can run in millisecond time.26:54 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 27:52 – Chuck: How much do the tools matter?28:01 – Guest: The revolutions matter. Whether you use Jasmine or Mocha or whatever I don’t think it matters. The tests matter not the tools.28:39 – Aimee: Yes and no. I think some tools are outdated.28:50 – Guest: I got a lot of flack about my blog where I talk about Cypress versus Selenium. I will never use Jasmine. In the end it’s the29:29 – Aimee: I am curious would you be willing to expand on what the Selenium folks were saying about Puppeteer and others may not provide?29:54 – Guest: Cypress was built for frontend developers. They don’t care about cross browser, and they tested in Chrome. Most browsers are typically the same. Selenium was built with the QA mindset – end to end tests that we need to do cross browser.The guest continues with this topic.30:54 – Aimee mentions Cypress. 31:08 – Guest: My guessing is that their priority is not there. I kind of agree with them.31:21 – Aimee: I think they are focusing on mobile more.31:24 – Guest: I think cross browser testing is less of an issue now. There is one area that is important it’s the visual area! It’s important to test visually across these different browsers.32:32 – Guest: Selenium is a Swiss knife – it can do everything.33:32 – Chuck: I am thinking about different topics to talk about. I haven’t used Puppeteer. What’s that about?33:49 – Guest: Puppeteer is much more like Selenium. The reason why it’s great is b/c Puppeteer will always be Google Chrome. 35:42 – Chuck: When should you be running your tests? I like to use some unit tests when I am doing my development but how do you break that down?36:06 – Guest.38:30 – Chuck: You run tests against production?38:45 – Guest: Don’t run tests against production...let me clarify!39:14 – Chuck.39:21 – Guest: When I am talking about integration testing in the backend...40:37 – Chuck asks a question. 40:47 – Guest: I am constantly running between frontend and backend.I didn’t know how to run tests for frontend. I had to invent a new thing and I “invented” the package JS DONG. It’s an implementation of Dong in Node. I found out that I wasn’t the only one and that there were others out there, too.43:14 – Chuck: Nice! You talked in the prep docs that you urged a new frontend developer to not run the app in the browser for 2 months?43:25 – Guest: Yeah, I found out that she was running the application...she said she knew how to write tests. I wanted her to see it my way and it probably was a radical train-of-thought, and that was this...44:40 – Guest: Frontend is so visual.45:12 – Chuck: What are you working on now?45:16 – Guest: I am working with Applitools and I was impressed with what they were doing.The guest goes into further detail.46:08 – Guest: Those screenshots are never the same.48:36 – Panel: It’s...comparing the output to the static site to the...48:50 – Guest: Yes, that static site – if you have 30 pages in your app – most of those are the same. We have this trick where we don’t upload it again and again. Uploading the whole static site is usually very quick. The second thing is we don’t wait for the results. We don’t wait for the whole rendering and we continue with the

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Jaksot(734)

TanStack: A Deep Dive into Server Functions and Routing with Tanner Linsley - JsJ 667

TanStack: A Deep Dive into Server Functions and Routing with Tanner Linsley - JsJ 667

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6 Helmi 1h 29min

What's New in JavaScript: Latest Language Updates and Features - JSJ 666

What's New in JavaScript: Latest Language Updates and Features - JSJ 666

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another exciting episode of JavaScript Jabber, part of the Top End Devs Network. I'm your host, Charles Max Wood, joined by our amazing panelist, Dan Shappir. In this episode, we dive into the latest developments in the world of JavaScript as we kick off a new year. You might recall we covered this topic about a year and a half ago in episode 590.  Today, we're revisiting the updates to see what's progressed and what's newly introduced in the JavaScript standard.Dan Shappir offers his expertise as we explore features that have recently been added to the language. From promise.allSettled, a feature that's been around for about five years but often underutilized, to array method enhancements like .at and Object.hasOwn, there's a ton to unpack. We'll also delve into exciting new library additions like findLast for arrays, efficient array copying methods and improvements in set operations that make JavaScript more powerful and developer-friendly than ever.The episode isn't just about the features that have already landed; we'll also touch on what's in the pipeline with proposals in various stages of development, including exciting concepts like temporal for better date and time handling. Whether you're a JavaScript pro or just keen to stay updated on the latest trends, this discussion is packed with insights to level up your coding game.So, grab your headphones, stay tuned, and let's explore the exciting world of new JavaScript features together!Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

22 Tammi 1h 26min

Reflections on Technology Trends, AI Impact, and Memorable Episodes - JSJ 665

Reflections on Technology Trends, AI Impact, and Memorable Episodes - JSJ 665

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7 Tammi 2h 5min

Innovation and Framework Adoption - JSJ 664

Innovation and Framework Adoption - JSJ 664

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Revolutionizing API Syntax and Schema Management with Jazz Framework - JSJ 663

Revolutionizing API Syntax and Schema Management with Jazz Framework - JSJ 663

In today's episode, Charles and AJ are joined by Anselm Eickhoff, a trailblazing full-stack software engineer. Anselm delves into the world of "Local First" software development and the innovative tool he’s developed, "Jazz." They explore how Jazz leverages schema information for type inference and runtime validation, enabling real-time collaboration and seamless offline functionality. They dive into the simplifications brought by Jazz's API changes, the flexibility offered through open protocols, and the local-first approach using CRDTs.They also tackle Jazz’s impressive backend infrastructure and its shift to direct disk storage, along with insights into the challenges and emerging support structures faced by early adopters. Anselm shares real-world applications, advanced analytics capabilities, and the future outlook for Jazz, emphasizing performance, resilience, and data privacy.Plus, stay tuned for a lighthearted detour into board games and TV recommendations, as well as updates on Charles’ AI Dev Boot Camp and exciting developments on the Top End Devs platform. This episode is packed with cutting-edge insights and practical advice for developers looking to integrate advanced real-time features and streamline their app development processes. SocialsLinkedIn: Anselm EickhoffPicksAJ - Dune 2-Film Collection (Blu-Ray + Digital)Charles - Imperial Miners | Board GameBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

24 Joulu 20241h 25min

Painting Roses, Eating Marshmallows and Network Protocols - JSJ 662

Painting Roses, Eating Marshmallows and Network Protocols - JSJ 662

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17 Joulu 20241h 33min

Structuring Node.js Applications Part 2: Dependency Management, Package Managers, Proper API Usage, etc.- JSJ 661

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This is the second part of the deep dive into the essential practices and principles for successful Node.js development. Our esteemed guests, Michael Dawson, James Snell, Matteo Collina, and Natalia Venditto, bring their extensive expertise to the table, discussing key topics like how to manage dependencies in a Node.js project.SocialsLinkedIn: James SnellLinkedIn: Michael DawsonLinkedIn: Matteo CollinaLinkedIn: Natalia VendittoPicksCharles - Gnome Hollow | Board GameCharles - Reacher (TV Series 2022Michael - MakerWorld: Download Free 3D Printing Models Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

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TypeScript Success: Integration, Type Checking, and Generics - JSJ 660

TypeScript Success: Integration, Type Checking, and Generics - JSJ 660

In this episode, Dan sits down with TypeScript expert Matt Pocock to dive deep into the world of TypeScript migration, learning curves, and developer challenges. They explore why having a TypeScript "wizard" is crucial for teams transitioning from JavaScript and how TypeScript's integration with development environments like Visual Studio Code has been a game changer.Dan and Matt discuss the importance of real-time typechecking, the community's role in TypeScript's success, and practical strategies for migrating large codebases to TypeScript. You'll hear about Matt's journey from drama school to becoming a DevRel expert, his contributions to the XState library, and his philosophy of type-driven development. Together, they highlight TypeScript's advantages, such as enhanced code reliability and the nuanced benefits of explicit vs. inferred types.Whether you're a seasoned developer or just starting with TypeScript, this episode offers valuable insights and actionable advice to help you harness the full power of static typing in your projects. Tune in for a fascinating discussion that underscores the value of "boring" code, the need for continual learning, and the ongoing evolution of software development practices. Stay with us as we unravel the intricacies of TypeScript and share practical tips to elevate your coding journey.SocialsLinkedIn: Matt PocockBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

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