JSJ 277: Dojo 2 with Dylan Schiemann and Kitson Kelly

JSJ 277: Dojo 2 with Dylan Schiemann and Kitson Kelly

JSJ 277: Dojo 2 with Dylan Schiemann and Kitson KellyThis episode of JavaScript Jabber features panelists Aimee Knight, Cory House, and Charles Max Wood. They talk with Dylan Schiemann and Kitson Kelly about Dojo 2.[00:02:03] Introduction to Dylan SchiemannDylan is the CEO at Sitepen and co-founder of the Dojo Toolkit.[00:02:22] Introduction to Kitson Kitson is the CTO at Sitepen and project lead for Dojo 2.[00:02:43] Elevator Pitch for DojoDojo 1 has been around forever. Started back in 2004 as a way to solve the challenge of "I want to build something cool in a browser." Promises and web components were inspired by or created by Dojo. It's been a huge influence on the web development community.Dojo 2 is a ground up re-write with ES 2015, TypeScript and modern API's. It's a modernized framework for Enterprise applications.[00:04:29] How is Dojo different from other frameworks?There's a spectrum: small libraries like React with an ecosystem and community of things you add to it to Angular which is closer to the MV* framework with bi-directional data binding. Vue lands somewhere in the middle. Dojo 2 is also somewhere in the middle as well. It's written in TypeScript and has embraced the TypeScript experience.[00:06:00] Did the Angular 2 move influence the Dojo 2 development and vice-versa?Dojo 2 had moved to TypeScript and 2 days later Angular announced that they were going to TypeScript. Angular also moved very quickly through their BETA phase, which caused some challenges for the Angular community.With Dojo 2, they didn't start the public discussion and BETA until they knew much better what was and wasn't going to change. They've also been talking about Dojo 2 for 6 or 7 years.The update was held up by adoption of ES6 and other technologies.Dojo 1 was also responsible for a lot of the low-level underpinning that Angular didn't have to innovate on. Dojo 2 was built around a mature understanding of how web applications are built now.People doing Enterprise need a little more help and assistance from their framework. Dojo provides a much more feature rich set of capabilities.Angular could have pushed much more of TypeScript's power through to the developer experience. Dojo much more fully adopts it.It's also easier if all of your packages have the same version number.Call out to Angular 4 vs Angular 2.[00:12:44] AMD ModulesWhy use AMD instead of ES6 modules?You can use both. Dojo 2 was involved in the creation of UMD. James Burke created UMD while working on Dojo.ES6 modules and module loading systems weren't entirely baked when Dojo 2 started to reach maturity, so they went with UMD. It's only been a few months since Safari implemented the ES6 module system. Firefox and friends are still playing catchup.The Dojo CLI build tool uses webpack, so it's mostly invisible at this point.So, at this point, should I be using UMD modules? or ES6? Is there an advantage to using AMD?With TypeScript you'd use ES6 modules, but UMD modules can be loaded on the fly.[00:16:00] Are you using Grunt?Internally, for tasks we use Grunt. But for users, we have a CLI tool that wraps around Webpack.For package builds and CI, Grunt is used.[00:18:30] What is the focus on Enterprise all about?There are a lot of different challenges and complexities to building Enterprise apps. Dojo was the first framework with internationalization, large data grids, SVG charts, etc. Dojo has spend a long time getting this right. Many other systems don't handle all the edge cases.Internationalization in Angular 2 or 4 seems unfinished.Most Dojo users are building for enterprises like banks and using the features that handle large amounts of data and handle those use cases better.[00:21:05] If most application frameworks have the features you listed, is there a set of problems it excels at?The Dojo team had a hard look at whether there was a need for their framework since many frameworks allow you to build great applications. Do we want to invest into something like this?React has internationalization libraries. But you'll spend a lot of time deciding which library to use and how well it'll integrate with everything else. A tradeoff in decision fatigue.In the Enterprise, development isn't sexy. It's necessary and wants to use boring but reliable technology. They like to throw bodies at a problem and that requires reliable frameworks with easily understood decision points.Producing code right is a strong case for TypeScript and they pull that through to the end user.Many frameworks start solving a small set of problems, become popular, and then bolt on what they need to solve everything else...Dojo tried to make sure it had the entire package in a clear, easy to use way.You can build great apps with most of the big frameworks out there. Dojo has been doing this for long enough that they know where to optimize for maintainability and performance.[00:29:00] Where is Dojo's sweet spot? https://www.sitepen.com/blog/2017/06/13/if-we-chose-our-javascript-framework-like-we-chose-our-music/The biggest reason for using Dojo over the years is the data grid component.They also claim to have the best TypeScript web development experience.You may also want a component based system with the composition hassles of React.The composability of components where one team may write components that another uses is a big thing in Dojo where one person doesn't know the entire app you're working on.Theming systems is another selling point for Dojo.[00:34:10] Ending the framework warsTry Dojo out and try out the grid component and then export it to your Angular or React app.There are a lot of frameworks out there that do a great job for the people who use them. The focus is on how to build applications better, rather than beating out the competition.Sitepen has build apps with Dojo 2, Angular, React, Dojo + Redux, etc.[00:39:01] The Virtual DOM used by Dojo2 years ago or so they were looking for a Virtual DOM library that was small and written in TypeScript. They settled on http://maquettejs.org/.The more you deal with the DOM directly, the more complex your components and libraries become.Makes things simpler for cases like server side rendering getting fleshed out in BETA 3.It also allows you to move toward something like React Native and WebVR components that aren't coupled to the DOM.They moved away from RxJS because they only wanted observables and shimmed in (or polyfilled) the ES-Next implementation instead of getting the rest of the RxJS that they're not using.[00:46:40] What's coming next?They're finishing Dojo 2. They're polishing the system for build UI components and architecture and structuring the app. They plan to release before the end of the year.They're also wrapping up development on the Data Grid, which only renders what shows on the screen plus a little instead of millions of rows.[00:49:08] TestingThey've gothttp://theintern.io.It pulls together unit testing, functional testing, continuous integration hooks, accessibility testing, etc.It's rewritten in TypeScript to take advantage of modern JavaScript.The Dojo CLI uses intern as the default test framework.Kitson build the https://github.com/dojo/test-extras library to help with Dojo testing with intern.Dojo Links
- http://dojo.io
- http://github.com/dojo/meta
- http://sitepen.com/blog
- https://gitter.im/dojo/dojo2
- http://github.com/dylans
- http://twitter.com/dylans
- http://twitter.com/sitepen
- http://twitter.com/dojo
- http://github.com/kitsonk
- http://twitter.com/kitsonk
PicksCory
- https://www.farnamstreetblog.com/2017/08/amateurs-professionals
Aimee
- https://www.eventbrite.com/e/devfest-florida-2017-tickets-31833188925?discount=JSJABBER (use code 'jsjabber')
Chuck
- Taking some time off
- http://amzn.to/2j8VKRJ
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVsXO9brK7M
Dylan
- https://www.zenhub.com/
- http://halfstackconf.com
- https://www.sitepen.com/blog/2017/06/13/if-we-chose-our-javascript-framework-like-we-chose-our-music/
Kitson
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number
Special Guests: Dylan Schiemann and Kitson Kelly.

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Practical Strategies for Web Optimization: Using Chrome DevTools - JSJ 635

Practical Strategies for Web Optimization: Using Chrome DevTools - JSJ 635

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New Frontiers in Web Platform Development with Bruce Lawson - JSJ

New Frontiers in Web Platform Development with Bruce Lawson - JSJ

In this episode, they dive into the world of web development, featuring insightful discussions on the differences and costs associated with hiring React Native developers, the importance of understanding web standards and browser differences, and the ongoing efforts of the Open Web Advocacy organization. They share their experiences, concerns, and insights on Apple's impact on the open web, the EU's investigation into Apple's actions, and the implications of progressive web apps in light of Apple's policies. Join them as they unravel the complexities and controversies shaping the web development landscape, and explore the future of web app accessibility and competition across devices.SocialsLinkedIn: Bruce LawsonBruce LawsonPicksCharles - Harry Potter: Death Eaters Rising Charles - Vite | Next Generation Frontend ToolingDan - Barry Pollard | Google IODan - React Compiler: In-Depth Beyond React Conf 2024Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

4 Kesä 20241h 19min

Building a Custom Front-end Framework - JSJ 633

Building a Custom Front-end Framework - JSJ 633

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28 Touko 20241h 21min

Sentry's Impact on Web Vitals Understanding - JSJ 632

Sentry's Impact on Web Vitals Understanding - JSJ 632

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Embracing Angular's Evolution with Santosh Yadav - JSJ 631

Embracing Angular's Evolution with Santosh Yadav - JSJ 631

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7 Touko 20241h

Web3 with Nik Kalyani - JSJ 630

Web3 with Nik Kalyani - JSJ 630

Feel like you don’t know enough about Web3? Don’t worry, neither do we. That’s where these podcasts come in! In this new episode, the Jabberers sit down with Nik Kalyani, the founder of Decentology and overall Web3 expert. The gang discusses the “big D” of Web3 (and why you need to understand it), how Web3 changes the game for blockchain and the like, and how Web3 is going to make gaming bigger AND more lucrative.“For developers, Web3 equals a green field of opportunity!”- Nik KalyaniIn This Episode The “big D” that you NEED to know to understand Web3 (and why it’s about more than just the tech) The BIGGEST concern about Web2 that Web3 is trying to solve (and how it changes privacy for everyone) How to navigate NFTs, blockchain, and more buzzwords in Web3 The future of Java with Web3 (and why it’s easier than Web2!) How Web3 is changing the game for gamingSponsorsChuck's Resume TemplateDeveloper Book ClubBecome a Top 1% Dev with a Top End Devs MembershipPicksAJ- Genetically Modified Skeptic (Rational Atheist)AJ- AJ's Litmus Test (Contact me you're looking for work)Follow CoolAJ86 Live Streams: YouTube: https://youtube.com/coolaj86Twitch: https://twitch.tv/coolaj86Follow Beyond Code: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2KJHARTj6KRpKzLU1sVxBATwitter: https://twitter.com/@_beyondcodeCharles- Wavelength | Board Game | BoardGameGeekCharles- Charles is Hiring! Charles- Best Tasting Protein Bars | BuiltBar.comNik- CATAN - CATANNik- Halt and Catch FireSteve- Twitter: Dad Jokes ( @Dadsaysjokes )Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

30 Huhti 20241h 24min

From Learning New Languages to Learning New Technologies - JSJ 629

From Learning New Languages to Learning New Technologies - JSJ 629

Tony Alicea is a Udemy and Pluralsight Instructor. They delve into the crucial topic of understanding and mastering technology, featuring insightful discussions and experiences from our speakers. From the shift in focus from technical problems to effective communication and marketing to the significance of deeply understanding a system rather than just focusing on coding, they provide valuable perspectives on building strong foundations, navigating challenges, and staying current in the ever-evolving tech landscape. They also touch on the importance of curiosity, learning by doing, and the potential impact of AI-generated code. Join them as they explore the nuances of learning and understanding technology in this engaging and thought-provoking episode.SponsorsChuck's Resume TemplateDeveloper Book ClubBecome a Top 1% Dev with a Top End Devs MembershipLinks https://understandingreact.com (coupon code JSJABBER)https://thesmythgroup.comSocialsTony AliceaTwitter: @AnthonyPAliceaPicksCharles - DoomlingsCharles - FinchCharles - Training PeaksCharles - 75 HardDan - RipleyTony - Forbidden IslandTony - Tales from the LoopBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

23 Huhti 20241h 33min

Unveiling Qwik and JavaScript Streamlining Web Development with Shai Reznik - JSJ 628 with Shai Reznik - JSJ 628

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Shai Reznik is the Founder & CEO at HiRez.io and he is a Qwik Team Member. They dive deep into the world of web development with a focus on the Qwik framework and JavaScript streaming. They explore topics such as predictive buffering, Qwik Insight, automating tasks, optimizing user and developer experiences, and the challenges of large-scale JavaScript refactoring. With a blend of technical insights and personal experiences, they shed light on the evolution of web development and the future role of AI in frameworks like Qwik. This episode is packed with thought-provoking discussions, expert opinions, and valuable resources for developers aiming to stay at the cutting edge of web development. So buckle up and get ready for an insightful journey into the world of fast and efficient web development.SponsorsChuck's Resume TemplateDeveloper Book ClubBecome a Top 1% Dev with a Top End Devs MembershipSocialsLinkedIn: Shai ReznikPicksDan - My Daemon on NetflixShai - The Gentlemen on NetflixBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

14 Huhti 20241h 21min

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