JSJ 392: The Murky Past and Misty Future of JavaScript with Douglas Crockford
JavaScript Jabber17 Syys 2019

JSJ 392: The Murky Past and Misty Future of JavaScript with Douglas Crockford

Episode SummaryDouglas is a language architect and helped with the development of JavaScript. He started working with JavaScript in 2000. He talks about his journey with the language, including his initial confusion and struggles, which led him to write his book JavaScript: The Good Parts.Douglas’ take on JavaScript is unique because he not only talks about what he likes, but what he doesn’t like. Charles and Douglas discuss some of the bad parts of JavaScript, many of which were mistakes because the language was designed and released in too little time. Other mistakes were copied intentionally from other languages because people are emotionally attached to the way things “have always been done”, even if there is a better way.Doug takes a minimalist approach to programming. They talk about his opinions on pairing back the standard library and bringing in what’s needed. Douglas believes that using every feature of the language in everything you make is going to get you into trouble. Charles and Douglas talk about how to identify what parts are useful and what parts are not.Douglas delves into some of the issues with the ‘this’ variable. He has experimented with getting rid of ‘this’ and found that it made things easier and programs smaller. More pointers on how to do functional programming can be found in his book How JavaScript Works Charles and Douglas talk about how he decided which parts were good and bad. Douglas talks about how automatic semicolon insertion and ++ programming are terrible, and his experiments with getting rid of them. He explains the origin of JS Lint. After all, most of our time is not spent coding, it’s spent debugging and maintaining, so there’s no point in optimizing keystrokes.Douglas talks about his experience on the ECMAScript development committee and developing JavaScript. He believes that the most important features in ES6 were modules and proper tail calls. They discuss whether or not progression or digression is occurring within JavaScript. Douglas disagrees with all the ‘clutter’ that is being added and the prevalent logical fallacy that if more complexity is added in the language then the program will be simpler. Charles asks Douglas about his plans for the future. His current priority is the next language. He talks about the things that JavaScript got right, but does not believe that it should not be the last language. He shares how he thinks that languages should progress. There should be a focus on security, and security should be factored into the language. Douglas is working on an implementation for a new language he calls Misty. He talks about where he sees Misty being implemented. He talks about his Frontend Masters course on functional programming and other projects he’s working on. The show concludes with Douglas talking about the importance of teaching history in programming. Panelists
  • Charles Max Wood
With special guest: Douglas CrockfordSponsorsLinks Follow DevChatTV on Facebook and Twitter PicksCharles Max Wood:Douglas Crockford:Special Guest: Douglas Crockford.

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030 JSJ Learning & Teaching JavaScript with Noel Rappin

030 JSJ Learning & Teaching JavaScript with Noel Rappin

PanelNoel Rappin (twitter github blog) Jamison Dance (twitter github blog) Charles Max Wood (twitter github Teach Me To Code Intro to CoffeeScript) AJ O’Neal (twitter github blog) Discussion 00:52 - Works in training and talent development for Groupon00:56 - Author of Rails Test Prescriptions and upcoming Master Space and Time with JavaScript01:21 - Writing a book about JavaScript02:33 - Focus of the bookPart 1: Jasmine and jQuery and the JavaScript Object Model Part 2: Extended examples of jQuery Part 3: Backbone Part 4: Ember 03:46 - Self-published authors05:15 - Approaches and mindsets to learning JavaScript06:04 - “Gotchas!” and bad features in Javascript09:17 - Modeling JavaScript for beginners11:23 - (AJ joins the podcast)11:42 - Resources/Classes for learning JavaScriptGood Parts Book: Douglas Crockford JavaScript Patterns: Stoyan Stefanov Eloquent JavaScript: A Modern Introduction to Programming: Marijn Haverbeke Maintainable JavaScript: Nicholas C. Zakas 13:54 - Hiring people with JavaScript experience at Groupon15:12 - Training workshops17:00 - Getting new hires up to speed quicklyPairing Mentoring Lectures Workshops 21:38 - Book LearningYou can learn at your own pace But it’s hard to ask questions to a book 22:51 - How Noel gained expertise in JavaScript24:38 - Code reading and learning to program a language26:18 - Teaching people JavaScript as their very first language31:55 - Classroom layout33:42 - Online trainingKahn Academy Computer ScienceCode AcademyStarter League40:00 - Finding a mentorStack Overflow PicksShrines by Purity Ring (Jamison) Learnable Programming: Bret Victor (Jamison) Mob Software: Richard P. Gabriel & Ron Goldman (Jamison) Monoprice.com (AJ) ZREO: Zelda Reorchestrated (AJ) The Official Twitter App (Chuck) Fluid App (Chuck) Try Jasmine! (Noel) Justin Searls (Noel) The Atrocity Archives: Charles Stross (Noel) Futurity: A Musical by The Lisps (Noel) Transcript NOEL: I’m trying to figure out where the chat is in this stupid Skype interface.JAMISON: Just imagine the worst place it could possibly be and that’s where it is.[This episode is sponsored by ComponentOne, makers of Wijmo. If you need stunning UI elements or awesome graphs and charts, then go to wijmo.com and check them out.][Hosting and bandwidth provided by The Blue Box Group. Check them out at bluebox.net]CHUCK: Hey everybody and welcome to Episode 30 of the JavaScript Jabber show! This week on our panel we have, Jamison Dance.JAMISON: Hey guys!CHUCK: I’m Charles Max Wood from devchat.tv and this week, we have a special guest and that’s Noel Rappin!NOEL: Hey everybody!CHUCK: For the people who don’t know who you are, you want to introduce yourself, Noel?NOEL:  Sure. I currently work in training and talent development for Groupon. And I am the author of previously “Rails Test Prescriptions” and currently a self-published book called “Master Time and Space with JavaScript”, which you can get at noelrappin.com. I need to spell that out, right? N-o-e-l-r-a-p-p-i-n.comCHUCK: So I’m little curious, before we get into the topic which is learning and teaching JavaScript, how did you get into writing a book about JavaScript? What’s your background there?NOEL: You know, it actually relates to teaching and learning JavaScript. I think, I was like… a lot of long time web devs. I spent my first round as a web consultant in around, turn of the century 2000’s. I spent time trying to talk clients out of JavaScript stuff because it was such a pain in the neck. And I kind of got away from it for awhile and came back a couple of years ago to realize that basically, everything had changed and they were actually usable tools now.And last summer, I was working with a… at that time,Special Guest: Noel Rappin. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

4 Loka 201251min

029 JSJ Bower.js with Alex MacCaw and Jacob Thornton

029 JSJ Bower.js with Alex MacCaw and Jacob Thornton

PanelAlex MacCaw (twitter github blog) Jacob Thornton (Fat) (twitter github blog) AJ O’Neal (twitter github blog) Jamison Dance (twitter github blog) Joe Eames (twitter github blog) Charles Max Wood (twitter github Teach Me To Code Intro to CoffeeScript) DiscussionBower.js (web) Bower.js (twitter) Bower.js (github) SXSW Package managers ender-js BPM hem Benefits Small components Yeoman.io Browserify Dependencies Segmenting the community Transports Mozilla (github) Commands Building an actual package manager node.js Moving parts of a package manager Events Challenges Ember.js Mobile web application development Google Chrome apps Desktop apps in JavaScript PicksKershaw Ken Onion Tactical Blur Folding Knife (AJ) The xx: Coexist (Jamison) Neil Armstrong’s Solemn but Not Sad Memorial Cathedral (Jamison) Collective Soul Cat (Jamison) Amazon Prime (Joe) Star Trek Original Series on Amazon Prime (Joe) Functional Programming Principles in Scala: Martin Odersky (Joe) Domo (hiring!) (Joe) Delegation in Google (Chuck) Civilization IV (Chuck) Fujitsu ScanSnap (Chuck) Bill Nye’s Twitter Account getting suspended was not cool (Jacob) Github + Twitter profile redesign (Jacob) Avoid 7/11 Hot Dog Flavored Chips (Jacob) The Big Picture (Alex) CoffeeScriptRedux (Alex) Stripe (Alex) Special Guests: Alex MacCaw and Jacob Thornton. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

2 Loka 201247min

028 JSJ Greenfield vs Brownfield Projects

028 JSJ Greenfield vs Brownfield Projects

PanelJoe Eames (twitter github blog) AJ O'Neal (twitter github blog) Jamison Dance (twitter github blog) Charles Max Wood (twitter github Teach Me To Code Rails Summer Camp) DiscussionGreenfield - Brand New Project Brownfield - Older Applications, Legacy Code Poopfield - PHP Development Dealing With Legacy Code Use Tests Working Effectively with Legacy Code - Michael Feathers Risk When is the big rewrite the correct answer? PicksJoseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling (AJ) Roll Up Crepes (AJ) Calepin (AJ) Bernie (Jamison) Dota 2 (Jamison) Derrick Storm Novels - A Brewing Storm, A Bloody Storm, A Raging Storm (Joe) Castle (Joe) X-Wing Mineatures (Joe) PEX For Fun (Joe) MLG Championship - Starcraft Duel (Joe) VESA 75 to 100 Adapter (Chuck) LG Tone Bluetooth Headphones (Chuck) Transcript JOE: Listen baby, it won’t get weird.JAMISON: [Chuckles]AJ: That sounds... weird.JAMISON: [Chuckles] Too Late.[Hosting and bandwidth provided by the Blue Box Group. Check them out at bluebox.net.][This episode is sponsored by Harvest. I use Harvest to track time, track subcontractor’s time and invoice clients. Their time tracking is really simple and easy to use. Invoicing includes a ‘pay now’ function by credit card and PayPal. And you can sign up at getharvest.com. Use the code RF to get 50% off your first month.]CHUCK: Hey everybody and welcome to episode 28 of the JavaScript Jabber show. This week on our panel, we have AJ O’Neil.AJ: Yo, yo, yo comin’ at you live from the second story of an office base in Orem, Utah.CHUCK:  We also have Jamison Dance.JAMISON: Hi, I’m Jamison Dance and I am super excited, because today iTV just announced that we are doing the Nintendo TV thing; and I haven’t been able to talk about it for, like, six months, so it’s a good day.CHUCK: Cool. We also have Joe Eames.JOE: Comin at you semi live from American Fork, Utah.CHUCK: And I am Charles Max Wood from devchat.tv. Tim is not with us this week because he is in China. I thought I’d point that out, because I think it’s cool. Anyway, this week we are going to be talking about Greenfield versus Brownfield projects. It was kind of funny when we were getting ready to do this, some of the panels were like, Green/Brown?JAMISON: Yeah, I have to pull Josh Susser and ask for a definition.CHUCK: So, as far as I understand it, there are some new --- to this, depending to who you talk to, but mostly, Greenfield is a brand new project with few or no decisions made and no code written for it yet. And Brownfield projects are effectively older applications usually associated with legacy code. You know, so it’s an application that already has code written toward it. Typically, it is out there in the world doing whatever it is supposed to do.JAMISON: Now, I want to put this question delicately. Are there any fecal connotations to the color ‘brown’ in Brownfield?CHUCK: Only if it’s PHP.JOE: [Chuckles]. Then it’s Poopfield Development?CHUCK: [Chuckles]. Okay, we are not gonna go down that tangent.[Laughter]AJ: Because, I mean honestly, when Mormons make jokes about crap, it never sounds good anyway.CHUCK: Yeah. So anyway, how many of you guys have actually worked on a real Greenfield project? Like been there from day one, that you have it just built yourself.JAMISON: I guess it depends on your definition. Maybe. So we have lots of services at ITV, so I've been part of spinning up completely new services that didn’t exist. We had other sort of similar things already, so some of the decisions were already made for, so we kind of had a style established. But it was still like a separate project.AJ: Do you forget us so soon, Jamison?JAMISON: [Chuckles].AJ: You don’t remember ever working here or getting started…JAMISON: I do. I don’t remember Greenfield stuff; I remember new features, I mean, Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

21 Syys 201214min

027 JSJ The JavaScript Community

027 JSJ The JavaScript Community

The panelists discuss the JavaScript community at large. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

5 Syys 201249min

026 JSJ Code Organization and Reuse

026 JSJ Code Organization and Reuse

The panelists talk about code organization and reuse. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

28 Elo 201256min

025 JSJ Require.js with James Burke

025 JSJ Require.js with James Burke

The panelists talk to James Burke about Require.js.Special Guest: James Burke . Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

21 Elo 201235min

024 JSJ Strata.js with Michael Jackson

024 JSJ Strata.js with Michael Jackson

Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

14 Elo 201243min

023 JSJ Phantom.js with Ariya Hidayat

023 JSJ Phantom.js with Ariya Hidayat

The panelists talk to Ariya Hidayat about Phantom.js.Special Guest: Ariya Hidayat. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

7 Elo 201240min

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