Ep. 203: Mark A Herschberg – The Great Resignation and How to Fix It

Links mentioned in today's Podcast:
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com
https://www.cognoscomedia.com/brain-bump
https://www.thecareertoolkitbook.com/resources

Connect with Mark:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/hershey/

https://twitter.com/CareerToolkitBk

https://www.facebook.com/TheCareerToolkitBook

https://www.instagram.com/thecareertoolkit/

Full Episode Transcript:
Adam:

Welcome back to Count Me In, the podcast focused on the issues, challenges, and characters shaping the management accounting profession. I'm Adam Larson. Today I'm joined by Mark Herschberg, serial entrepreneur, business innovator, and the author of the Career Toolkit: Essential Skills for Success that No One Taught You. Now, lots of people cover career and work best practices, but if you ask me, it all can start to sound pretty similar, but that's not the case with Mark. There's a good reason he teaches at MIT, which you're about to find out. In fact, Mark had so much insight and advice to share from his research and years of building companies and teams, we ended up recording two podcasts, the second of which will be coming out soon. But for now, let's get started with Mark Herschberg discussing the fallout from the great resignation and what he's learned about how to fix work.

Adam:

Mark, I wanted to just thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and today we're gonna really focus on the great resignation and we've all been hearing this term they've been writing about it since it started in 2021, but I wanted to start off by just you talking a little bit about what what it is and what it means for everybody today.

Mark:

Well, thanks for having me on the show today. The great resignation is really the term that is an umbrella term for what is the largest rewrite of the capital labor contract that we have seen in a century. Now certainly we are seeing people leave jobs quitting, finding better jobs, sometimes going back to their original job, but it's also a larger cultural change about what people are looking for in their jobs. And so we need to recognize this isn't just, well, we have to do a better job hiring or retaining. It is a shift in terms of what people want and companies need to adjust if they wanna stay competitive in the labor market.

Adam:

Yeah, it sounds like it, and it also sounds like companies really need to focus in on how do we keep employees as well? Because I'm sure during the pandemic employees were seeing, do I really still need to be here? And that they started asking themselves a lot of questions.

Mark:

Well, that's a really good point. And you get different answers depending on who you ask. When it comes down to any job, it's really about the communication needed. It's about who needs to communicate with whom and when and how best to do that. It's why we have emails, slack, phone calls, meetings, they're all channels of communicating, whether it's project updates or you and I coordinating and coming up with ideas. That's what a lot of work is. What we found is that certain types of work can be done from home. We don't have to be sitting next to each other. And people have speculated about this for years. I work in technology. We've certainly been on the forefront. I've been working with teams all around the world for years. You can do some of that, but there are limitations to that and it seems like we might be overshooting a bit in that people don't understand. At first we said No, you'll have to be in the office five days a week. It's like, well, we know we can work when we're in the office zero days a week. You can work in both modes, but is that optimal? And so there are different facets you need to look at to decide what is the optimal number of days for a particular team at which points.

Adam:

Yeah, and it also seems like it's more than just money that people are leaving because of a lot of times people leave because of money or because of culture, or all those things. But you can't just throw more money at your employees and say, Okay, you know, stay here.

Mark:

That's exactly right. Money is a bit of a factor. And as we record this at the start of the summer in 2022, we've been coming off some of the highest inflation rates that we've seen in a generation. And so you do need more money to stay competitive and other companies are throwing money at them. But here's the thing, you are probably not the highest payer in your market. One company is, and it probably isn't you. So if you're just competing on money, that's going to be a problem. What we saw is people are responding to these other dimensions, and this is what I meant when I said it's a rewrite of that capital labor contract. It's no longer I pay you money, you do the work. And so we're seeing employees, particularly younger employees, but we are seeing it across the spectrum. They're looking not just at money I'm using at Compensation General, or there's stock options of salary, but also work life balance, company culture, alignment to mission and support, just to name a few.

Mark:

We saw companies that back at the start of the pandemic in 2020, some of them said, look, it's tough for everyone. Suck it up and do it. And other companies said, hey, it's tough for everyone, so we're going to give you Fridays off for the next two months because this is crazy. Spend some time with your families. We all need the stress break or what can we do to support you while you are at home? And so the companies that were more supportive of their employees were the ones who basically had more loyalty and had employees say, I know you're looking out for me and are more likely to stay. So it's important that we really sell our employees current and future ones, not just on the compensation, but on all these other facets.

Adam:

So it what I'm hearing you say, it sounds like company culture is a huge part of avoiding the resignation, but also, you know, when you, when new people are coming on, you wanna make sure that they fit that company culture to make sure that they're gonna stay on.

Mark:

Culture is very important. Now by culture, I think a lot of companies get this wrong. They think the culture is the seven values. Someone in marketing put on the website that says customer first or whatever the mantra is. And I'm sure there is value to those, but the actual culture of your team might be at your company level. More likely it's at a team or department level is how you interact day to day. For example, I have a colleague who told me at a former company, the rule was whoever yelled loudest got their way in the meeting. I guarantee you marketing did not put that on the website. But when you show up, ...