Joscha Bach and Ben Goertzel: When Will AI Become Conscious?

Joscha Bach and Ben Goertzel explore cognitive architectures, the nature of consciousness, and the prospects for artificial general intelligence. Their conversation weaves through language paradoxes, Zen concepts, and the limits of large language models as steps toward AGI.- 00:00:00 - Introduction- 00:02:23 - Computation vs Awareness- 00:06:11 - The paradox of language and self-contradiction- 00:10:05 - The metaphysical categories of Charles Peirce- 00:13:00 - Zen Buddhism's category of zero- 00:14:18 - Carl Jung's interpretation of four- 00:21:22 - Language as "representation"- 00:28:48 - Computational reality vs AGI- 00:33:06 - Consciousness in particles- 00:44:18 - Anesthesia and consciousness: Joscha's personal perspective- 00:54:36 - Levels of consciousness levels (panpsychism vs functionalism)- 00:56:23 - Deep neural nets & LLMs as steps backward from AGI?- 01:05:04 - Emergent properties of LLMs- 01:12:26 - Turing-completeness and its implications- 01:15:08 - OpenAI's bold claims challenged- 01:24:24 - Future of AGI- 01:31:58 - Intelligent species after human extinction- 01:36:33 - Emergence of a cosmic mind- 01:43:56 - The timeline to AGI development- 01:52:16 - The physics of immortality- 01:54:00 - Critique of Integrated Information Theory (pseudoscience?)SPONSORS:- Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal (early access to ad-free audio episodes!)- Crypto: https://nowpayments.io/donation/TOE- PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE- Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt- Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs- iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast...- Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b9...- Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeveryt...- TOE Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerchRESOURCES:- YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw7omaQ8SgA- OpenCog (Ben's Ai company): https://opencog.org- SingularityNET (Ben's Decentralized Ai company): https://singularitynet.io- Podcast w/ Joscha Bach on TOE: https://youtu.be/3MNBxfrmfmI- Podcast w/ Ben Goertzel on TOE: https://youtu.be/27zHyw_oHSI- Podcast w/ Michael Levin and Joscha on TOE: https://youtu.be/kgMFnfB5E_A- Podcast w/ John Vervaeke and Joscha on TOE: https://youtu.be/rK7ux_JhHM4- Podcast w/ Donald Hoffman and Joscha on TOE: https://youtu.be/bhSlYfVtgww Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal features long-form, technically detailed interviews with leading researchers in physics, mathematics, consciousness, and philosophy, exploring topics at the level of active research. For academics, graduate students, and anyone seeking depth beyond popular science. SPONSOR: I personally subscribe to The Economist. SUMMER SALE to Aug 17, 2026: 50% off the annual subscription! No other podcast has this! https://economist.com/TOE FOLLOW: Substack | Spotify | YouTube | Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices