More Talk, Less Action Could Be Good for Credit Markets

More Talk, Less Action Could Be Good for Credit Markets

Our Head of Corporate Credit Research lists realistic scenarios for why credit could outperform expectations in 2025, despite some risks posed by policy changes from the incoming administration.


----- Transcript -----


Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Andrew Sheets, head of Corporate Credit Research at Morgan Stanley. Today I’ll be discussing realistic scenarios where things could be better than we expect.

It's Friday December 20th at 2pm in London.

Credit is an asset class that always faces more limited upside, and the low starting point for spreads as we enter 2025 further limits potential gains. Nevertheless, there are still a number of ways where this market could do better than expected, with spreads tighter than expected, into next year.

An obvious place to start is U.S. policy. Morgan Stanley’s public policy strategy team thinks the incoming administration will be a story of “fast announcement, slow implementation”, with the growth and inflation impact of tariffs and immigration falling more in 2026 (rather than say earlier). And so if one looks at Morgan Stanley’s forecasts, our growth numbers for 2025 are good, our 2026 numbers are weaker.

The bull case could be that we see more talk but less ultimate action. Scenarios where tariffs are more of a negotiating tool than a sustained policy would likely mean less change to the current (credit friendly) status quo, and also increase the likelihood that the Federal Reserve will be able to lower interest rates even as growth holds up. Rate cuts with good growth is a rare occurrence, but when you do get it, it can be extremely good. If one thinks of the mid-1990s, another time where we had this combination, credit spreads were even tighter than current levels. Another path to the bull case is better funding conditions in the market. Some loosening of bank capital requirements or stronger demand for collateralized loan obligations could both flow through to tighter spreads for the assets that these fund, especially things like leveraged loans. If we think back to periods where credit spreads were tighter than today, easier funding was often a part of the story.

Now, a more aggressive phase of corporate activity could be a risk to credit, but M&A can also be a positive event, especially on a name by name basis. If merger and acquisition activity becomes a story of, say, larger companies buying smaller ones, that could mean that weaker, high yield credits get absorbed by larger, stronger, investment grade balance sheets. And so for those high yield bonds or loans, this can be an outstanding outcome. Another way things could be better than expected for credit is that growth in Europe and China is better than expected. In speaking with investors over the last few weeks, I think it's safe to say that expectations for both regions are pretty low. And so if things are better than these low expectations, spreads, especially in Europe, which are not as tight as those in the U.S., could go tighter.

But the most powerful form of the credit bull case might be the simplest. Morgan Stanley expects the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, and the European Central Bank to all lower interest rates much more than markets expect next year, even as, for the most part, growth in 2025 holds up. Due in a large part to those expected rate cuts, we also think the yields fall more than expected. If that's right, credit could quietly have an outstanding year for total return, which is boosted as yields fall. Indeed, on our forecast, U.S. investment grade credit, a relatively sleepy asset class, would see a total return of roughly 10%, higher than our expected total return for the mighty S&P 500. Not all credit investors care about total return. But for those that do, that outcome could feel very bullish.

Thanks for listening. If you enjoy the show, leave us a review wherever you listen, and share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or colleague today.

Jaksot(1538)

Special Series: U.S. Housing Faces a Generational Turning Point

Special Series: U.S. Housing Faces a Generational Turning Point

On this special episode, Equity Analyst Richard Hill examines the coming seismic shift for investors as Baby Boomers pass the housing baton to Millennials and Generation Z.

1 Loka 20193min

Mike Wilson: Are Markets Rethinking Pricey Growth Stocks?

Mike Wilson: Are Markets Rethinking Pricey Growth Stocks?

On today’s episode, Chief Investment Officer Mike Wilson explains why markets may be having a change of heart on expensive—and sometimes unprofitable—growth stocks.

30 Syys 20193min

Andrew Sheets: A Tale of Two Oil Price Spikes

Andrew Sheets: A Tale of Two Oil Price Spikes

On today’s podcast, Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets says oil prices tend to spike for two very different reasons and the distinction for investors is quite important.

27 Syys 20192min

Michael Zezas: How Do Markets View Major Policy Proposals?

Michael Zezas: How Do Markets View Major Policy Proposals?

On today's episode, Head of U.S. Public Policy Michael Zezas takes a look at transformative policy proposals by 2020 Presidential candidates. How could big policies like Medicare-for-All reshape markets?

25 Syys 20191min

Special Series: Is NextGen Reinventing the Banking Experience?

Special Series: Is NextGen Reinventing the Banking Experience?

On this special episode, Betsy Graseck, global head of banking research, explains how Millennials and Gen Z are reshaping the financial industry in their tech-savvy, mobile-first image.

24 Syys 20194min

Mike Wilson: Looking Toward Q3 Earnings

Mike Wilson: Looking Toward Q3 Earnings

On today’s podcast, investors are watching for progress on trade and signs of future Fed policy. But according to Chief Investment Officer Mike Wilson, it still comes down to Q3 earnings season.

23 Syys 20193min

Andrew Sheets: Are Lower Interest Rates Always Beneficial?

Andrew Sheets: Are Lower Interest Rates Always Beneficial?

On today's episode, Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets says although lower interest rates help boost economic activity, the full impact is more complicated.

20 Syys 20192min

Michael Zezas: Investors Look for Progress on U.S-China Trade

Michael Zezas: Investors Look for Progress on U.S-China Trade

On today’s podcast, Head of U.S. Public Policy Michael Zezas says a potential improvement in some key U.S. economic indicators will need real progress on trade—not just headlines.

18 Syys 20192min

Suosittua kategoriassa Liike-elämä ja talous

sijotuskasti
psykopodiaa-podcast
mimmit-sijoittaa
rss-rahapodi
herrasmieshakkerit
ostan-asuntoja-podcast
hyva-paha-johtaminen
taloudellinen-mielenrauha
sijoituskaverit
rss-rahamania
rss-lahtijat
rss-sisalto-kuntoon
rss-lentopaivakirjat
leadcast
rss-huomisen-talous
rss-merja-mahkan-rahat
rss-paasipodi
kasvun-kipuja
rss-startup-ministerio
rss-bisnesta-bebeja