CTO Series: Mastering the CTPO Role, Katrina Clokie’s Guide to Tech and Product Leadership

CTO Series: Mastering the CTPO Role, Katrina Clokie’s Guide to Tech and Product Leadership

CTO Series: Mastering the CTPO Role, Katrina Clokie’s Guide to Tech and Product Leadership

In this BONUS episode, we sit down with Katrina Clokie, a seasoned leader in strategy, change management, and building inclusive teams. Katrina shares pivotal moments in her career, offers practical leadership insights, and discusses her role as Chief Technology and Product Officer (CTPO), where she’s balancing innovation with business objectives. Whether you’re an aspiring tech leader or looking to sharpen your leadership toolkit, Katrina’s wisdom will inspire you to embrace growth, resilience, and collaboration.

Defining Moments in Leadership

“Look for roles you can’t fully do yet—it’s the best way to grow.”

Katrina reflects on a transformative moment early in her career when a mentor from the shipping industry encouraged her to seek out challenging roles that would push her growth. This advice set her on the path to engineering management and C-level leadership. She shares how fostering curiosity and pursuing conversations about topics she didn’t yet fully understand has kept her continually learning.

“Ask yourself: where do I feel stretched? That’s often where the best growth opportunities lie.”

The Role of CTPO: Combining Technology and Product Strategy

“We needed both a unified vision and an efficient structure to remain competitive.”

Katrina discusses why her company created the CTPO role and how it reflects the size and growth stage of the organization. With no prior head of product, Katrina leaned into her experience while recognizing the importance of partnering with skilled product managers. She emphasizes the importance of having clear accountabilities and embracing growth within the role.

“The key is knowing when to lead and when to lean on your team’s expertise.”

Aligning Tech Strategy with Business Objectives

“Trade-offs are inevitable—make them strategically, not reactively.”

At Fergus, Katrina implemented clear guardrails, such as avoiding a complete rewrite of their decade-old monolith, focusing instead on retiring components that hindered stability and developer experience. She shares how they allocate 60% of engineering capacity to strategic initiatives and 40% to ongoing business needs, ensuring tech and business priorities stay aligned.

“Guardrails help teams make decisions that align with the big picture without constant oversight.”

Fostering Cross-Functional Collaboration

“Healthy conflict is necessary—escalation usually signals a breakdown in structure.”

Katrina describes how she structured cross-functional teams with clear goals and metrics to foster collaboration and ensure diverse perspectives are represented. She highlights the importance of empathy and role-modeling constructive conflict resolution at senior levels.

“A well-designed structure turns potential conflict into productive problem-solving.”

Roadmapping with Flexibility and Focus

“Roadmaps should guide—not handcuff—teams to long-term commitments.”

Katrina’s approach to roadmapping balances transparency and adaptability. By reserving only 60% of capacity for roadmap initiatives and keeping annual plans intentionally light, her teams can pivot when necessary without overcommitting. Frequent, smaller releases (up to 160 changes per month) help deliver value continuously.

“Leave room in your roadmap to handle surprises without derailing progress.”

Scaling Teams During Rapid Growth

“Avoid constant recruiting—it can burn out your leaders and upset team dynamics.”

Drawing from her experience at Xero, Katrina advises against an “always-on” recruitment strategy, which can overwhelm hiring managers and disrupt team cohesion. Instead, she recommends batch hiring and partnering with finance and talent teams to manage hiring budgets in stages.

“Hiring in waves allows teams to stabilize and thrive, rather than constantly adjusting.”

Overcoming the Challenges of Growth and Constraints

“Shifting from hyper-growth to steady growth meant saying ‘no’ more often and being precise.”

Katrina shares how transitioning from an environment of rapid scaling to a more constrained SaaS company required a shift in her approach to decision-making. She focused on making the business context clear to her team, fostering trust and transparency in her decision-making process.

“When people understand the ‘why’ behind constraints, they’re more likely to trust the process.”

Recommended Reads for Tech Leaders

Katrina shares the books that have shaped her leadership journey:

“Great leadership isn’t innate—it’s learned through mentorship, reflection, and resources.”

Scaling Your Influence as a Leader

From her experience at global companies to her current role, Katrina’s insights on transparency, collaboration, and strategic trade-offs provide a blueprint for navigating the complexities of tech leadership.

“Leadership isn’t about having all the answers—it’s about empowering your team and staying open to learning.”

About Katrina Clokie

Katrina Clokie is a respected leader in strategy, change management, and building inclusive teams. A keynote speaker at international conferences, she is passionate about leadership and communication. Her book, A Practical Guide to Testing in DevOps, has reached over 7,000 readers. In 2018, she was a finalist for New Zealand’s Inspiring Individual of the Year Award.

You can link with Katrina Clokie on LinkedIn.

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Practical Strategies for Organizational Tool Rollouts | Anamaria Ungureanu

Practical Strategies for Organizational Tool Rollouts | Anamaria Ungureanu

Anamaria Ungureanu: Practical Strategies for Organizational Tool Rollouts Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Anamaria shares her approach to successfully implementing JIRA across an organization by focusing on practical value rather than forcing adoption. Her strategy involved identifying early believers within teams, conducting open discussions to gather feedback, and demonstrating concrete benefits like improved dependency management. Rather than trying to convince resisters, she concentrated on working with willing teams to showcase the tool's value, providing real-time support during implementation, and ensuring team members felt supported throughout the transition. Her method emphasizes being present to answer questions immediately and building momentum through successful early adopters. Self-reflection Question: When leading organizational change, how do you balance addressing resistance with amplifying the voices of those ready to embrace new approaches? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Anamaria Ungureanu Anamaria Ungureanu is an Agile evangelist driving transformations across IT, airlines, and automotive. She delivers projects with firms like IBM and Airbus, coaches from executives to teams in SAFe and Scrum, leads assessments, customizes workshops, and supports tool adoption, like Jira, and digital whiteboards like MIRO. You can link with Anamaria Ungureanu on LinkedIn.

30 Heinä 12min

Knowledge Hoarding and Team Dependencies | Anamaria Ungureanu

Knowledge Hoarding and Team Dependencies | Anamaria Ungureanu

Anamaria Ungureanu: The Tech Lead Who Nearly Destroyed the Team Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Anamaria describes a seven-member software team that initially seemed engaged but began self-destructing when a senior tech lead refused to embrace transparency and knowledge sharing principles.  The situation escalated when this key team member's four-day absence completely blocked the team's ability to deliver, creating a dangerous single point of failure. Through careful retrospective facilitation and strategic motivation techniques, including offering the specialist new learning opportunities while gradually transferring their legacy knowledge to teammates, Anamaria helped the team overcome knowledge silos and establish sustainable collaboration patterns. Featured Book of the Week: Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss Anamaria recommends “Never Split the Difference” by Chris Voss, a negotiation masterpiece because it taught her essential communication strategies for establishing trust and navigating tense situations. She emphasizes that negotiation is a critical Scrum Master skill, and Voss's techniques help build rapport with stakeholders while managing difficult conversations that arise during team transformations and organizational change initiatives. Self-reflection Question: What knowledge silos exist in your teams, and how might you motivate specialists to share their expertise while providing them with new growth opportunities? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Anamaria Ungureanu Anamaria Ungureanu is an Agile evangelist driving transformations across IT, airlines, and automotive. She delivers projects with firms like IBM and Airbus, coaches from executives to teams in SAFe and Scrum, leads assessments, customizes workshops, and supports tool adoption, like Jira, and digital whiteboards like MIRO. You can link with Anamaria Ungureanu on LinkedIn.

29 Heinä 18min

Goal Clarity—The Missing Piece in Agile Team Performance | Anamaria Ungureanu

Goal Clarity—The Missing Piece in Agile Team Performance | Anamaria Ungureanu

Anamaria Ungureanu: Goal Clarity—The Missing Piece in Agile Team Performance Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Anamaria shares her experience working with a platform implementation team that appeared engaged but was actually struggling in silence. Despite initial assumptions that everything was fine, the team's quiet demeanor masked their lack of understanding about project goals and deliverables.  Through strategic intervention including goal clarification with the Product Owner, confidence level assessments, and story mapping sessions, Anamaria helped transform a disengaged team into one capable of successful delivery. Her approach emphasized the importance of fostering constructive conflict, asking open questions during sprint planning about demo expectations, and facilitating better PO-team interactions to create transparency and shared understanding. In this episode, we refer to User Story Mapping and the concept of Gemba, or Gemba Walk Self-reflection Question: How might your teams be silently struggling, and what signs should you watch for to identify when apparent engagement actually masks confusion or disengagement? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Anamaria Ungureanu Anamaria Ungureanu is an Agile evangelist driving transformations across IT, airlines, and automotive. She delivers projects with firms like IBM and Airbus, coaches from executives to teams in SAFe and Scrum, leads assessments, customizes workshops, and supports tool adoption, like Jira, and digital whiteboards like MIRO. You can link with Anamaria Ungureanu on LinkedIn.

28 Heinä 13min

The Hidden Cost of Decision-Making Delays in Product Development | Anh Vu

The Hidden Cost of Decision-Making Delays in Product Development | Anh Vu

Anh Vu: The Hidden Cost of Decision-Making Delays in Product Development Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: The Strategic Connector Anh describes an exceptional Product Owner who went far beyond managing the backlog to become a strategic connector between customer needs, business requirements, technical constraints, and overall strategy. What made this PO remarkable was their background - they came from a developer background rather than business, yet quickly mastered the Product Owner role through dedicated learning. Despite being new to the PO role, they rapidly developed the ability to connect backlog items directly to customer pain points, often using techniques like user story mapping. This PO brought both clarity and purpose to the team, significantly boosting team motivation by helping developers understand how their work directly impacted customers and business outcomes. The Bad Product Owner: The Proxy Problem The worst Product Owner situation Anh encountered involved a Proxy PO who lacked the authority to make decisions independently. This created significant challenges for both the team and the PO, as every new problem or decision required seeking permission from external stakeholders. This pattern lengthened feedback cycles and demotivated both the PO and the development team, who couldn't move forward efficiently when blocked by decisions. Anh's approach to addressing this involved coaching the PO on engaging with external stakeholders, setting up regular touchpoints (2-3 times per week) to shorten feedback cycles, and focusing on improving the decision-making process to unblock the team. He also emphasized creating a strong network of connections for the PO to navigate the organization effectively and always having a Plan B when certain decisions couldn't be made quickly. Self-reflection Question: Does your Product Owner have true decision-making authority, or are they frequently forced to seek permission from others, and how is this affecting your team's velocity and motivation? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Anh Vu Anh Vu is a seasoned Project Manager with 10+ years in software delivery, Agile, DevOps, and PM. As a PMP trainer, he has empowered 200+ professionals. Passionate about continuous learning, Anh explores practical tools and methodologies to help PMs and teams succeed in fast-paced, tech-driven environments. You can link with Anh Vu on LinkedIn.

25 Heinä 12min

Situational Leadership for Scrum Masters - Knowing When to Step Back | Anh Vu

Situational Leadership for Scrum Masters - Knowing When to Step Back | Anh Vu

Anh Vu: Situational Leadership for Scrum Masters - Knowing When to Step Back Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Anh defines success for Scrum Masters through a simple but powerful test: when you take vacation and return to find the team working exceptionally well without you. This ultimate measure of success focuses on building self-organization and enabling true team autonomy. He emphasizes that Scrum adoption should serve as a metaphor for autonomy and self-organization, with the Scrum Master's stance evolving alongside the team's growth. Drawing from Situational Leadership principles, Anh points out that a team can only become as autonomous as the Scrum Master can envision and facilitate. The key is recognizing when to step back and allow the team to demonstrate their independence while ensuring they have the foundation and confidence to succeed. Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Free Form Retrospective Anh advocates for the free form retrospective format, which requires only a whiteboard, table, and people gathering for open reflection based on the previous sprint's goals. Rather than following structured formats, he invites team members to share their insights freely, considering the retrospective successful as long as the team leaves with 1-3 actionable insights. This approach works particularly well with teams he knows well, where trust and communication patterns have been established. He builds on this by incorporating silent thinking time to start conversations, a habit developed over time that makes teams more comfortable sharing in the free form format. Anh also recommends conducting retrospectives during in-office days when the team can eat together, investing heavily in these face-to-face interactions to strengthen team bonds. Self-reflection Question: What would happen if you took a week off from your current role - would your team continue to thrive, or would they struggle without your direct involvement? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Anh Vu Anh Vu is a seasoned Project Manager with 10+ years in software delivery, Agile, DevOps, and PM. As a PMP trainer, he has empowered 200+ professionals. Passionate about continuous learning, Anh explores practical tools and methodologies to help PMs and teams succeed in fast-paced, tech-driven environments. You can link with Anh Vu on LinkedIn.

24 Heinä 14min

From Project Mindset to Product Thinking - Leading Client Transformation | Anh Vu

From Project Mindset to Product Thinking - Leading Client Transformation | Anh Vu

Anh Vu: From Project Mindset to Product Thinking - Leading Client Transformation Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Anh describes a transformative collaboration experience while building multiple websites for a client. Over time, his team recognized significant commonalities between projects and saw the opportunity to create reusable components for future work. However, they faced resistance when trying to shift the client's mindset from short-term project delivery to long-term product thinking. The business stakeholders remained focused on immediate project completion rather than investing in sustainable, reusable solutions.  Anh's approach to leading this change involved presenting concrete evidence from previous projects to demonstrate the tangible benefits of component reusability. Rather than just proposing the idea theoretically, they suggested implementing reusable components immediately within the current project, showing rather than just telling. His strategy centered on providing clear evidence of benefits and demonstrating achievability, making the transition from project to product mindset more tangible and less risky for the client. In this episode, we refer to the book “From Project to Product” by Mik Kersten.  Self-reflection Question: How might you help your stakeholders see beyond immediate deliverables to recognize the long-term value of sustainable practices and reusable solutions? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Anh Vu Anh Vu is a seasoned Project Manager with 10+ years in software delivery, Agile, DevOps, and PM. As a PMP trainer, he has empowered 200+ professionals. Passionate about continuous learning, Anh explores practical tools and methodologies to help PMs and teams succeed in fast-paced, tech-driven environments. You can link with Anh Vu on LinkedIn.

23 Heinä 12min

From Individual Stars to Team Players - Transforming Competitive Developers | Anh Vu

From Individual Stars to Team Players - Transforming Competitive Developers | Anh Vu

Anh Vu: From Individual Stars to Team Players - Transforming Competitive Developers Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Anh recounts his first Scrum project as a Scrum Master for a payment company, leading a team of five developers working on a new product with new technology and devices. The challenge was compounded by the fact that this was a completely new team where members didn't know each other. What started as an attempt to make work visible quickly deteriorated when developers began competing to prove they were the best rather than collaborating toward shared goals. Each developer focused solely on their individual tasks without considering the overall outcome, and when bugs appeared at the end of sprints, blame games began.  This anti-pattern of developers not prioritizing team results created a cycle where team members wouldn't help each other, ultimately undermining the project's success. Anh's key learning was that the root problem wasn't process-related but trust-related, and as a Scrum Master, addressing surface-level issues isn't enough - the real work lies in building foundational trust within the team. Self-reflection Question: In your current team, are individual achievements being celebrated more than collective success, and how might this be affecting overall team trust and collaboration? Featured Book of the Week: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team Anh recommends "The Five Dysfunctions of a Team" as essential reading for understanding team dynamics. He emphasizes that trust is the basic foundation for people to succeed together, and this book provides both the why and the how for building that trust. According to Anh, trust serves as the foundation for all teams, making it crucial knowledge for both Scrum Masters and Project Managers who need to facilitate effective team collaboration. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Anh Vu Anh Vu is a seasoned Project Manager with 10+ years in software delivery, Agile, DevOps, and PM. As a PMP trainer, he has empowered 200+ professionals. Passionate about continuous learning, Anh explores practical tools and methodologies to help PMs and teams succeed in fast-paced, tech-driven environments. You can link with Anh Vu on LinkedIn.

22 Heinä 13min

The Hidden Cost of Skipping Scrum Ceremonies | Anh Vu

The Hidden Cost of Skipping Scrum Ceremonies | Anh Vu

Anh Vu: The Hidden Cost of Skipping Scrum Ceremonies Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Anh shares his experience as a new Project Manager who was confident about understanding Scrum but quickly discovered the complexity of implementing it effectively. His team's daily meetings turned into lengthy debates about solutions, consuming excessive time and energy, leading team members to complain about meeting overload. When the team suggested moving discussions to Slack to avoid meetings, this created new problems with missed insights and additional coordination challenges.  Anh explains how they fell into the "Scrum-but" anti-pattern, where teams claim to use Scrum while avoiding its core practices. The real learning came when he realized that successful framework implementation requires connecting core values with mechanics - for example, linking transparency from Scrum values to actual practices. His key insight: always share the "why" behind everything you do, and remember the Shu-Ha-Ri principle - make it work first before making changes. Self-reflection Question: How might you be unconsciously implementing "framework-but" patterns in your current role, and what core values should you reconnect with your daily practices? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Anh Vu Anh Vu is a seasoned Project Manager with 10+ years in software delivery, Agile, DevOps, and PM. As a PMP trainer, he has empowered 200+ professionals. Passionate about continuous learning, Anh explores practical tools and methodologies to help PMs and teams succeed in fast-paced, tech-driven environments. You can link with Anh Vu on LinkedIn.

21 Heinä 14min

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