This Conversation Will Change How You Think About Trauma

This Conversation Will Change How You Think About Trauma

“Trauma is much more than a story about something that happened long ago,” writes Dr. Bessel van der Kolk. “The emotions and physical sensations that were imprinted during the trauma are experienced not as memories but as disruptive physical reactions in the present.”

Van der Kolk, a psychiatrist by training, has been a pioneer in trauma research for decades now and leads the Trauma Research Foundation. His 2014 book “The Body Keeps the Score,” quickly became a touchstone on the topic. And although the book was first released seven years ago, it now sits at No. 1 on the New York Times best-seller list, a testament to the state of our national psyche.

The core argument of the book is that traumatic experiences — everything from sexual assault and incest to emotional and physical abuse — become embedded in the older, more primal parts of our brain that don’t have access to conscious awareness. And that means two things simultaneously. First, that trauma lodges in the body. We carry a physical imprint of our psychic wounds. The body keeps the score. But — and I found this more revelatory — the mind hides the score. It obscures the memories, or convinces us our victimization was our fault, or covers the event in shame so we don’t discuss it.

There’s a lot in this conversation. We discuss the lived experience of trauma, the relationship between the mind and the body, the differences between our “experiencing” and “autobiographical” selves, why van der Kolk believes human language is both a “miracle” and a “tyranny,” unconventional treatments for trauma from E.M.D.R. and yoga to psychedelics and theater, how societies can manage collective trauma like 9/11 and Covid-19, the shortcomings of America’s “post-alcoholic” approach to dealing with psychic suffering, how to navigate the often complex relationships with the traumatized people we know and love, and much more.

Mentioned:

“The Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Study” by Vince Felitti et al.

Study on efficacy of EMDR

“REBUS and the Anarchic Brain: Toward a Unified Model of the Brain Action of Psychedelics” by Robin Carhart-Harris et al.

Book Recommendations:

The Apology by V

Love in Goon Park by Deborah Blum

The Narrow Road to the Deep North by Richard Flanagan

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein.

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

“The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld, audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.


Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Jaksot(482)

Best Of: Tired? Distracted? Burned Out? Listen to This.

Best Of: Tired? Distracted? Burned Out? Listen to This.

I’m convinced that attention is the most important human faculty. Your life, after all, is just the sum total of the things you’ve paid attention to. We lament our attention issues all the time — how ...

30 Elo 202457min

Best Of: The Men — and Boys — Are Not Alright

Best Of: The Men — and Boys — Are Not Alright

We recently did an episode on the strange new gender politics that have emerged in the 2024 election. But we only briefly touched on the social and economic changes that underlie this new politics — t...

27 Elo 20241h 58min

Kamala Harris Wants to Win

Kamala Harris Wants to Win

On Thursday night, Kamala Harris reintroduced herself to America. And by the standards of Democratic convention speeches, this one was pretty unusual. In this conversation I’m joined by my editor, Aar...

23 Elo 202443min

Can the Democratic Party Reclaim Freedom?

Can the Democratic Party Reclaim Freedom?

Democrats spent the third night of their convention pitching themselves as the party of freedom. In this conversation, my producer Annie Galvin joined me on the show to take a deep look at that messag...

22 Elo 202443min

The Obamas Strike Back

The Obamas Strike Back

Is Obamaism making a comeback? Tuesday night at the Democratic National Convention, Michelle and Barack Obama electrified the crowd with the most powerful speeches of the week so far, and seemed to an...

21 Elo 202439min

Democrats Don’t Think They Have This Election Won

Democrats Don’t Think They Have This Election Won

I’m reporting from the Democratic National Convention this week, so we’re going to try something a little different on the show — a daily audio report of what I’m seeing and hearing here in Chicago. F...

20 Elo 202432min

Manliness, Cat Ladies, Fertility Panic and the 2024 Election

Manliness, Cat Ladies, Fertility Panic and the 2024 Election

A strange new gender politics is roiling the 2024 election. At the Republican National Convention, Donald Trump made his nomination a show of campy masculinity, with Hulk Hogan, Kid Rock and Dana Whit...

16 Elo 20241h 30min

Nate Silver on Kamala Harris’s Chances and the Mistakes of the ‘Indigo Blob’

Nate Silver on Kamala Harris’s Chances and the Mistakes of the ‘Indigo Blob’

Risk has been on my mind this year. For Democrats, the question of whether Joe Biden should drop out was really a question about risk – the risk of keeping him on the ticket versus the risk of the unk...

13 Elo 20241h 6min

Suosittua kategoriassa Politiikka ja uutiset

aikalisa
ootsa-kuullut-tasta-2
tervo-halme
rss-ootsa-kuullut-tasta
politiikan-puskaradio
viisupodi
et-sa-noin-voi-sanoo-esittaa
rss-podme-livebox
otetaan-yhdet
rss-vaalirankkurit-podcast
radio-antro
linda-maria
the-ulkopolitist
rss-kaikki-uusiksi
rss-tasta-on-kyse-ivan-puopolo-verkkouutiset
rss-asiastudio
io-techin-tekniikkapodcast
rss-kiina-ilmiot
rss-mina-ukkola
rss-hyvaa-huomenta-bryssel