This Conversation Will Change How You Think About Trauma

This Conversation Will Change How You Think About Trauma

“Trauma is much more than a story about something that happened long ago,” writes Dr. Bessel van der Kolk. “The emotions and physical sensations that were imprinted during the trauma are experienced not as memories but as disruptive physical reactions in the present.”

Van der Kolk, a psychiatrist by training, has been a pioneer in trauma research for decades now and leads the Trauma Research Foundation. His 2014 book “The Body Keeps the Score,” quickly became a touchstone on the topic. And although the book was first released seven years ago, it now sits at No. 1 on the New York Times best-seller list, a testament to the state of our national psyche.

The core argument of the book is that traumatic experiences — everything from sexual assault and incest to emotional and physical abuse — become embedded in the older, more primal parts of our brain that don’t have access to conscious awareness. And that means two things simultaneously. First, that trauma lodges in the body. We carry a physical imprint of our psychic wounds. The body keeps the score. But — and I found this more revelatory — the mind hides the score. It obscures the memories, or convinces us our victimization was our fault, or covers the event in shame so we don’t discuss it.

There’s a lot in this conversation. We discuss the lived experience of trauma, the relationship between the mind and the body, the differences between our “experiencing” and “autobiographical” selves, why van der Kolk believes human language is both a “miracle” and a “tyranny,” unconventional treatments for trauma from E.M.D.R. and yoga to psychedelics and theater, how societies can manage collective trauma like 9/11 and Covid-19, the shortcomings of America’s “post-alcoholic” approach to dealing with psychic suffering, how to navigate the often complex relationships with the traumatized people we know and love, and much more.

Mentioned:

“The Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Study” by Vince Felitti et al.

Study on efficacy of EMDR

“REBUS and the Anarchic Brain: Toward a Unified Model of the Brain Action of Psychedelics” by Robin Carhart-Harris et al.

Book Recommendations:

The Apology by V

Love in Goon Park by Deborah Blum

The Narrow Road to the Deep North by Richard Flanagan

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein.

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

“The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld, audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.


Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Jaksot(480)

Interesting Times: She Exposed Epstein and Shares MAGA’s Anger

Interesting Times: She Exposed Epstein and Shares MAGA’s Anger

My colleague Ross Douthat talks to the journalist who exposed Jeffrey Epstein. This episode of “Interesting Times,” with the Miami Herald investigative journalist Julie K. Brown, came out back in July...

2 Joulu 202559min

Best Of: The ‘Quiet Catastrophe’ Brewing in Our Social Lives

Best Of: The ‘Quiet Catastrophe’ Brewing in Our Social Lives

The holidays are an unusually social time, filled with parties and family get-togethers. But for most of the year, we feel isolated and unsatisfied with our social lives. Our society isn’t structured ...

25 Marras 20251h 15min

Fareed Zakaria Thinks Steve Bannon Got One Thing Right

Fareed Zakaria Thinks Steve Bannon Got One Thing Right

On Monday night, in front of a live audience, I talked to Fareed Zakaria about the different political age he believes we’ve entered. Zakaria is the host of “Fareed Zakaria GPS” on CNN and the author ...

21 Marras 20251h 8min

Patti Smith on the One Desire That Lasts Forever

Patti Smith on the One Desire That Lasts Forever

Patti Smith, “the Godmother of Punk,” has lived a wild life and accumulated so much wisdom in the process. In the 1960s and ’70s, Smith was a fixture of the New York City creative scene — hanging out ...

18 Marras 20251h 17min

Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes and the Right’s ‘Groyper’ Problem

Tucker Carlson, Nick Fuentes and the Right’s ‘Groyper’ Problem

Is this the future of MAGA?Tucker Carlson’s interview with the white nationalist influencer Nick Fuentes has caused a firestorm on the right. Carlson and Fuentes’s friendly chat about American Jews — ...

14 Marras 20251h 23min

What Were Democrats Thinking?

What Were Democrats Thinking?

Democrats’ case for the government shutdown was just starting to break through to voters. Why fold now?Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.You can find the transcript an...

10 Marras 202510min

The Blue Wave Cometh?

The Blue Wave Cometh?

Democrats won big on Tuesday. It looks like the MAGA coalition has started to crack.Ezra is joined by his column editor, Aaron Retica, to discuss the big lessons for Democrats as they eye the midterms...

7 Marras 202558min

This Is How the Democratic Party Beats Trump

This Is How the Democratic Party Beats Trump

Democrats don’t just need to win more people; they also need to win more places. And that requires a different kind of thinking.Mentioned:"How Liberalism Wins" by Ezra KleinThoughts? Guest suggestions...

2 Marras 202537min

Suosittua kategoriassa Politiikka ja uutiset

aikalisa
rss-ootsa-kuullut-tasta
tervo-halme
ootsa-kuullut-tasta-2
politiikan-puskaradio
viisupodi
rss-podme-livebox
rss-vaalirankkurit-podcast
otetaan-yhdet
et-sa-noin-voi-sanoo-esittaa
rss-asiastudio
the-ulkopolitist
linda-maria
rss-kaikki-uusiksi
rss-merja-mahkan-rahat
io-techin-tekniikkapodcast
rikosmyytit
rss-mina-ukkola
rss-pykalien-takaa
rss-kuka-mina-olen