This Conversation Will Change How You Think About Trauma

This Conversation Will Change How You Think About Trauma

“Trauma is much more than a story about something that happened long ago,” writes Dr. Bessel van der Kolk. “The emotions and physical sensations that were imprinted during the trauma are experienced not as memories but as disruptive physical reactions in the present.”

Van der Kolk, a psychiatrist by training, has been a pioneer in trauma research for decades now and leads the Trauma Research Foundation. His 2014 book “The Body Keeps the Score,” quickly became a touchstone on the topic. And although the book was first released seven years ago, it now sits at No. 1 on the New York Times best-seller list, a testament to the state of our national psyche.

The core argument of the book is that traumatic experiences — everything from sexual assault and incest to emotional and physical abuse — become embedded in the older, more primal parts of our brain that don’t have access to conscious awareness. And that means two things simultaneously. First, that trauma lodges in the body. We carry a physical imprint of our psychic wounds. The body keeps the score. But — and I found this more revelatory — the mind hides the score. It obscures the memories, or convinces us our victimization was our fault, or covers the event in shame so we don’t discuss it.

There’s a lot in this conversation. We discuss the lived experience of trauma, the relationship between the mind and the body, the differences between our “experiencing” and “autobiographical” selves, why van der Kolk believes human language is both a “miracle” and a “tyranny,” unconventional treatments for trauma from E.M.D.R. and yoga to psychedelics and theater, how societies can manage collective trauma like 9/11 and Covid-19, the shortcomings of America’s “post-alcoholic” approach to dealing with psychic suffering, how to navigate the often complex relationships with the traumatized people we know and love, and much more.

Mentioned:

“The Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Study” by Vince Felitti et al.

Study on efficacy of EMDR

“REBUS and the Anarchic Brain: Toward a Unified Model of the Brain Action of Psychedelics” by Robin Carhart-Harris et al.

Book Recommendations:

The Apology by V

Love in Goon Park by Deborah Blum

The Narrow Road to the Deep North by Richard Flanagan

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein.

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

“The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld, audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.


Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Jaksot(480)

Why Trump Can’t Shake Jeffrey Epstein

Why Trump Can’t Shake Jeffrey Epstein

MAGA has been infighting over the Jeffrey Epstein files. And that’s because the conspiracy theories around Epstein hit at the very core of MAGA’s whole worldview.Today’s episode looks closer at that w...

17 Heinä 20251h 9min

Why Does My Mind Keep Thinking That?

Why Does My Mind Keep Thinking That?

I have had a meditation practice for about 15 years now. I started hoping it would calm me down, and it has. But it’s also made me more aware of the strangeness of my mind. Certain thoughts emerge see...

11 Heinä 20251h 7min

How the Attention Economy Is Devouring Gen Z — and the Rest of Us

How the Attention Economy Is Devouring Gen Z — and the Rest of Us

Donald Trump and Zohran Mamdani are both proof of how the ability to capture attention is power. And the attention economy isn’t reshaping just politics; it’s also reshaping the actual economy: the cr...

8 Heinä 20251h 5min

The Disaster That Just Passed the Senate

The Disaster That Just Passed the Senate

President Trump’s “big, beautiful bill” is a bad piece of legislation. It includes trillions of dollars in tax cuts that are very much tilted toward the rich, along with savage cuts to Medicaid, nutri...

2 Heinä 20251h 11min

Mamdani, Trump and the End of the Old Politics

Mamdani, Trump and the End of the Old Politics

Zohran Mamdani created a new anti-establishment playbook — in his use of social video, his focus on affordability and his position on Israel.   His assumed victory in New York City’s Democratic mayora...

28 Kesä 20251h 24min

A New Middle East?

A New Middle East?

For decades, Israel has wanted American support to bomb Iranian nuclear sites. But U.S. presidents, both Republican and Democrat, have resisted — until President Trump. So, what changed? And what are ...

25 Kesä 202548min

Is This America’s Golden Age? A Debate.

Is This America’s Golden Age? A Debate.

Kevin Roberts, Kellyanne Conway, Ben Rhodes and I battled it out a few weeks ago on a stage in Toronto. This was for a Munk Debate on the motion: “Be it resolved, this is America’s Golden Age.” It mig...

20 Kesä 20251h 42min

Sarah McBride on Why the Left Lost on Trans Rights

Sarah McBride on Why the Left Lost on Trans Rights

President Trump’s actions against transgender Americans have been stunningly wide-ranging. They’ve also been popular.Trump has sought new restrictions on trans people in sports, schools, the military,...

17 Kesä 20251h 35min

Suosittua kategoriassa Politiikka ja uutiset

aikalisa
rss-ootsa-kuullut-tasta
tervo-halme
ootsa-kuullut-tasta-2
politiikan-puskaradio
viisupodi
rss-podme-livebox
et-sa-noin-voi-sanoo-esittaa
rss-asiastudio
otetaan-yhdet
rss-vaalirankkurit-podcast
the-ulkopolitist
linda-maria
rikosmyytit
rss-mina-ukkola
rss-kaikki-uusiksi
rss-merja-mahkan-rahat
radio-antro
rss-polikulaari-humanisti-vastaa-ja-muut-ts-podcastit
rss-raha-talous-ja-politiikka