This Conversation Will Change How You Think About Trauma

This Conversation Will Change How You Think About Trauma

“Trauma is much more than a story about something that happened long ago,” writes Dr. Bessel van der Kolk. “The emotions and physical sensations that were imprinted during the trauma are experienced not as memories but as disruptive physical reactions in the present.”

Van der Kolk, a psychiatrist by training, has been a pioneer in trauma research for decades now and leads the Trauma Research Foundation. His 2014 book “The Body Keeps the Score,” quickly became a touchstone on the topic. And although the book was first released seven years ago, it now sits at No. 1 on the New York Times best-seller list, a testament to the state of our national psyche.

The core argument of the book is that traumatic experiences — everything from sexual assault and incest to emotional and physical abuse — become embedded in the older, more primal parts of our brain that don’t have access to conscious awareness. And that means two things simultaneously. First, that trauma lodges in the body. We carry a physical imprint of our psychic wounds. The body keeps the score. But — and I found this more revelatory — the mind hides the score. It obscures the memories, or convinces us our victimization was our fault, or covers the event in shame so we don’t discuss it.

There’s a lot in this conversation. We discuss the lived experience of trauma, the relationship between the mind and the body, the differences between our “experiencing” and “autobiographical” selves, why van der Kolk believes human language is both a “miracle” and a “tyranny,” unconventional treatments for trauma from E.M.D.R. and yoga to psychedelics and theater, how societies can manage collective trauma like 9/11 and Covid-19, the shortcomings of America’s “post-alcoholic” approach to dealing with psychic suffering, how to navigate the often complex relationships with the traumatized people we know and love, and much more.

Mentioned:

“The Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Study” by Vince Felitti et al.

Study on efficacy of EMDR

“REBUS and the Anarchic Brain: Toward a Unified Model of the Brain Action of Psychedelics” by Robin Carhart-Harris et al.

Book Recommendations:

The Apology by V

Love in Goon Park by Deborah Blum

The Narrow Road to the Deep North by Richard Flanagan

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein.

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.

“The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld, audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.


Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Jaksot(480)

‘We Have to Really Rethink the Purpose of Education’

‘We Have to Really Rethink the Purpose of Education’

I honestly don’t know how I should be educating my kids. A.I. has raised a lot of questions for schools. Teachers have had to adapt to the most ingenious cheating technology ever devised. But for me, ...

13 Touko 20251h 8min

Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

A good rule of thumb is that whatever Margaret Atwood is worried about now, the rest of us will likely be worried about a decade from now. The rise of authoritarianism. A backlash against women’s soci...

9 Touko 20251h 7min

How a Red-District Democrat Is Navigating Trump

How a Red-District Democrat Is Navigating Trump

Representative Marie Gluesenkamp Perez is one of just 13 Democrats to represent a district that Donald Trump won. Her distinctive economic message, and a willingness to buck her own party, helped her ...

6 Touko 202557min

Trump vs. the Dollar

Trump vs. the Dollar

The U.S. dollar is the lingua franca of the global financial system. The fact that so much of the world relies on our currency has long been understood as our exorbitant privilege — the reason we have...

2 Touko 20251h 2min

Abundance and the Left

Abundance and the Left

“Abundance,” the book I co-wrote with Derek Thompson, hit bookstore shelves a little over a month ago, and the response has been beyond anything I could have imagined. And it’s generated a lot of inte...

29 Huhti 20251h 14min

Ross Douthat on Trump, Mysticism and Psychedelics

Ross Douthat on Trump, Mysticism and Psychedelics

I have no earthly idea how to describe this conversation. It’s about religion and belief – at this moment in our politics, and in our lives more generally.My guest and I come from very different persp...

25 Huhti 20251h 35min

The Very American Roots of Trumpism

The Very American Roots of Trumpism

After last week’s episode, “The Emergency Is Here,” we got a lot of emails. And the most common reply was: You really think we’ll have midterm elections in 2026? Isn’t that naïve?I think we will have ...

23 Huhti 20251h 13min

The Emergency Is Here

The Emergency Is Here

The president of the United States is disappearing people to a Salvadoran prison for terrorists: a prison built for disappearance, a prison where there is no education or remediation or recreation, a ...

17 Huhti 20251h 12min

Suosittua kategoriassa Politiikka ja uutiset

aikalisa
rss-ootsa-kuullut-tasta
tervo-halme
ootsa-kuullut-tasta-2
politiikan-puskaradio
viisupodi
rss-podme-livebox
et-sa-noin-voi-sanoo-esittaa
rss-asiastudio
otetaan-yhdet
rss-vaalirankkurit-podcast
the-ulkopolitist
linda-maria
rikosmyytit
rss-mina-ukkola
rss-kaikki-uusiksi
rss-merja-mahkan-rahat
radio-antro
rss-polikulaari-humanisti-vastaa-ja-muut-ts-podcastit
rss-raha-talous-ja-politiikka