Charlie Kindel on Terminal.Gui - Episode 146

Charlie Kindel on Terminal.Gui - Episode 146

This week, Jeffrey is joined by Charlie Kindel! Charlie is an American tech executive doing consulting and advising. Formerly, he has held roles with Control4, Amazon, and Microsoft. Much of his career has been spent focused on smart home products. Additionally, he is also the maintainer of Terminal Gui, which is a .NET 5 UI framework for console applications.

In this conversation, Charlie discusses the Terminal Gui and highlights some of the cases where it shines. If you're looking for a full user interface but you only want it to sip — rather than sap — system resources, the Terminal Gui may be the solution you're looking for! It's fun from a retro perspective as it allows people to go and explore the way UIs were back in the 80s and before.

Charlie shares how the Terminal Gui project got started, its current capabilities, the notable applications that use Terminal Gui, its constraints, dependencies, memory usage, potential future integration, and more! Don't miss out on learning about this lightweight UI framework.

Topics of Discussion:

[:14] About The Azure DevOps Podcast, Clear Measure, the new podcast Architect Tips, and Jeffrey's offer to speak at virtual user groups.

[1:24] About today's episode with Charlie Kindel

[1:48] Jeffrey welcomes Charlie Kindel to the podcast!

[2:04] Charlie shares some of his notable career highlights.

[4:28] What Jeffrey finds fascinating about Terminal Gui with modern .NET 5.0 applications.

[5:55] How the Terminal Gui project got started and its capabilities.

[7:35] Jeffrey highlights how lightweight Terminal Gui is.

[8:22] Are there any notable applications that use Terminal Gui right now? What is one of Charlie's favorites?

[10:09] What does the control model for Terminal Gui look like for those who want to create a composite control or a new type of control?

[12:11] Are there any limitations besides the layout? What types of controls can be made with Terminal Gui?

[13:46] What are the constraints with Terminal Gui?

[15:46] Is it expected to use a form base model similar to WinForms or WPF? Or more like model-view-controller where you split up the behavior and the layout? What's the intended approach?

[16:56] If someone is going to adopt Terminal Gui and use it for a particular command line EXE, what is the testing story (so that they know if the user interface is behaving properly)?

[17:50] If someone is going to be using Terminal Gui in their build, tests, and deployments, do they need to be aware of any dependencies (besides the library itself)?

[18:27] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast's sponsor: Clear Measure.

[18:58] What do the tests look like in Terminal Gui? What should developers be looking at if they want to write tests?

[20:25] With Terminal Gui, would you deploy as a regular .NET 5.0 assembly? Would most of the time you roll up all the libraries and do a single executable deployment?

[20:51] What are some of the future visions for Terminal Gui?

[22:15] Why you would want to use Terminal Gui if you already use WPF, Xamarin, MAUI, etc.

[23:19] Jeffrey shares one of his first experiences with using Terminal Gui and why he likes it.

[24:09] Has Terminal Gui been tested with really old Windows or constrained hardware?

[24:33] Are there any reports on the footprint of startup memory usage?

[25:03] Jeffrey and Charlie discuss memory measurements.

[26:51] Is tab ordering built into Terminal Gui?

[28:08] Charlie discusses the potential of future integration with MAUI.

[29:19] Charlie shouts out the other contributors on the Terminal Gui project.

[30:24] Where and how to check out Terminal Gui.

[30:50] How to start contributing to the project.

[31:17] Jeffrey thanks Charlie Kindel for joining the podcast!

Mentioned in this Episode:

Architect Tips — New video podcast!

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook!

Jeffrey Palermo's Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter Follow to stay informed about future events!

The Azure DevOps Podcast's Twitter: @AzureDevOpsShow

Terminal Gui source code

Microsoft PowerShell Graphical Tools

Out-ConsoleGridView (OCG)

Miguel de Icaza's 2019 blog post on Terminal Gui

Presentation from .NET Conf 2018

Video recording of Terminal Gui

Xamarin.Forms with console UI adapter

Selenium

Xamarin

MAUI

Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

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Rockford Lhotka: Philosophy on Architecture - Episode 288

Rockford Lhotka: Philosophy on Architecture - Episode 288

Rockford Lhotka is VP of Strategy at Xebia and Chief Software Architect at Marimer LLC. He is the creator of the open-source CSLA .NET development framework, the author of numerous books, and regularly speaks at major conferences around the world. Rockford is a member of the Microsoft Regional Director and MVP programs. Topics of Discussion: [3:36] Rockford's career path at Xebia and consulting. [5:18] Building frameworks that stand the test of time. [6:38] Changes in the CLSA user base and the two major inflection points. [11:40] How Rockford thinks about the general spectrum. [16:14] The ways we can improve education include decades of previous experience and education. [17:15] We need to ask why more. [28:12] The job of an application architect. [30:15] The "layer cake" as a visual way to express the concept. [32:57] Separating business logic from user interface. [33:53] The need for practical tools and frameworks that make developing easier. [34:05] The five layers in the layer cake approach. [47:03] The beauty of consistent coding. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Lhotka CSLA Episode 210 CSLA.NET Rockford Lhotka LinkedIn Rockford Lhotka Rockford Lhotka Blog Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

11 Maalis 202450min

Jared Parsons: Designing C# and Testing a Compiler - Episode 287

Jared Parsons: Designing C# and Testing a Compiler - Episode 287

Jared Parsons, the Principal Developer Lead on the C# Compiler Team. Everybody tuning in probably uses his code on a day-to-day basis! Jared started at Microsoft 20 years ago as a Developer; moved on to become a Senior Developer; then the Principal Developer on Midori OS; and most recently, the Principal Developer on the C# Compiler Team, which he has been with since 2014. Topics of Discussion: [3:14] Jared talks about his twisty career path. [5:29] What does designing a programming language look like? [6:18] The two features in C#. [10:30] The C# language design process. [14:09] How we get from ideas to designs and implementations. [16:02] Jared recommends resources to learn more. [17:34] Jared's favorite convention for all the member types. [18:20] Primary constructors. [24:21] Is the entire compiler open source? [25:28] Thinking like a customer and pushing on the tools if needed. [30:33] How the process has changed over the years. [32:41] Jared's favorite testing unit. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jared Parsons on DevOps on the C# Compiler Team: Ep #53 Roslyn Github Roslyn Analyzers Github C# Language Github Jared on LinkedIn Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

4 Maalis 202435min

Michael Washington: Azure OpenAI - Episode 286

Michael Washington: Azure OpenAI - Episode 286

Michael is an ASP.NET and C# programmer who has extensive knowledge in process improvement, AI and Large Language Models, and student information systems. He also is the founder of two websites — AIStoryBuilders.com and BlazorHelpWebsite.com — both fantastic resources that help empower developers. Michael resides in Los Angeles, California, with his son Zachary and wife, Valerie. Topics of Discussion: [3:14] Michael talks about his career path. [5:15] AIStoryBuilders.com. [6:21] The vision for his book and what sets it apart from others. [9:10] What is "RAG"? Retrieval augmented generation. [12:35] How did Michael come up with the AI Story Builders name? [14:09] Keeping AI on track despite the limitations. [17:44] Models behave better when trained on more data. [21:26] How do you make the decision on which named model to use? [34:05] Where Microsoft is a leader. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Azure OpenAI Using C# Michael Washington GitHub AI Story Builders Adefwebserver Blazor-Blogs Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

26 Helmi 202438min

Kent Beck: Tidy First - Episode 285

Kent Beck: Tidy First - Episode 285

Original signer of the Agile Manifesto, author of the Extreme Programming book series, rediscoverer of Test-Driven Development, and inspiring Keynote Speaker. I read his TDD book 20 years ago. Topics of Discussion: [4:06] What led Kent into extreme programming, and realizing that technical mastery alone is not enough for project success. [6:24] The significance of extreme programming. [9:15] The Agile Manifesto. [10:46] The importance of taking responsibility seriously. [14:06] What was the inspiration behind Tidy First? [16:27] Why software design is an important skill. [17:31] The human aspect dominates in design. [19:40] You can make large changes in small safe steps. [23:09] Normalizing symmetry. [30:17] Preserving flexibility in design through empirical and reversible changes rather than rather than speculative or reactive design. [31:51] Kent's experimentation with the GPT phase of AI on publications. [32:11] Rent-A-Kent to get better answers around software development. [37:19] Advice for young programmers. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Rent-A-Kent Tidy First? by Kent Beck Test Driven Development, by Kent Beck Extreme Programming Explained, by Kent Beck with Cynthia Andres Implementation Patterns, by Kent Beck Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

19 Helmi 202440min

Paul Yuknewicz: Cloud Native & Serverless - Episode 284

Paul Yuknewicz: Cloud Native & Serverless - Episode 284

Paul Yuknewicz is a Lead Product Manager for Azure Developer Experience at Microsoft; he is responsible for the PM team that designs the developer experience for building and diagnosing cloud-native applications for Azure. In his role, he's very passionate about helping developers succeed in building high-scale distributed applications and building strong collaboration with customers. He has fun learning and challenging the status quo in a breadth of technologies and languages, like Linux, Windows, Java, .NET, Serverless, containers, service meshes, and application observability. He speaks at industry conferences not only at Microsoft but also at conferences like DEVintersection, TechBash, and more. Topics of Discussion: [4:40] Paul talks about his career evolution. [5:28] Working in SharePoint, Azure, and then in the microservices field. [6:44] DAPR, distributed application runtime. [8:06] The power of the open source world. [8:33] What is Serverless? [11:08] The evolution of their work in AI. [12:05] The concept of Serverless vs. developing in a microservices fashion. [15:17] Why Paul thinks containers are great. [18:16] Who Serverless is good for. [20:01] Serverless architecture and cost savings. [23:55] Container apps. [28:31] The tactical process behind Dapper. [34:41] Container apps environment. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Paul Twitter Paul Github "Paul Yuknewicz on Azure Development Ep #136" Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

12 Helmi 202438min

Uncle Bob Martin: Clean Code and How to Do Software Well  - Episode 283

Uncle Bob Martin: Clean Code and How to Do Software Well - Episode 283

If you don't already know Bob, he is a software engineer, instructor, and best-selling author. He is most recognized for developing numerous software design principles and for being a founder of the incredibly influential Agile Manifesto. Bob is the author of a number of Clean Code related books including his latest, Clean Agile: Back to Basics, where he reintroduces Agile values and principles for a new generation of programmers and nonprogrammers alike. In the past, Bob was also the editor-in-chief of C++ Report magazine and served as the first chairman of the Agile Alliance. Topics of Discussion: [3:48] Why the term "clean" when it comes to software? [5:16] Are people still writing "dirty" software? [7:06] it is the developers job to maintain quality, and pretending to go fast by rushing is not a viable solution. [9:54] Uncle Bob's upcoming book on the history of programmers. [11:00] The first era of programmers may be the scribes of Egypt. [15:00] How Uncle Bob went about organizing the book into different eras of programmers. [18:10] A short backstory about Grace Hopper. [23:33] Uncle Bob's other new book which is out now, Functional Design. [24:54] Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs [28:37] Does functionality have a concise set of principles? [33:11] Where are the shifts happening? [34:01] The loss of Moore's Law. [37:33] What will be the winning strategies as we prepare for a few years where things grow, but not as quickly as they have, and we sit on a plateau? [40:51] Make it right, then you can make it fast. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Previous episode with Uncle Bob Functional Design Clean Coders .NET Developer Apprentice - Texas Clean Agile Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

5 Helmi 202441min

Greg Leonardo: Optimizing Cloud Budgets in Azure - Episode 282

Greg Leonardo: Optimizing Cloud Budgets in Azure - Episode 282

Greg is a Cloud Architect that assists organizations with cloud adoption and innovation and is currently a Cloud Architect and the owner of Webonology. He has been working in the IT industry since his time in the military and is a developer, teacher, speaker, and early adopter. Greg has worked in many facets of IT throughout his career and is currently the president of TampaDev, a community meetup that runs #TampaCC and various technology events throughout Tampa. Greg holds a certification as a Microsoft Certified Azure Solutions Architect Expert, and Microsoft Certified Trainer, and is an Azure MVP. Topics of Discussion: [3:49] What has been Greg's secret sauce to success? Helping others. [4:53] Optimizing Azure budgets. [7:12] The cloud shines in replatforming or rehosting. [9:12] To Greg, a lot of the cost optimization really focuses on architectural optimization. [13:58] The importance of looking at evolution and realizing that technology doesn't stop at the cloud. [18:35] Don't blame technology for your shortcomings. [23:31] Azure services surprise people with their cost, and the need to go into things with eyes wide open. [29:21] The problem with the pricing calculator. [35:47] The two-fold problem with present-day containers. [37:02] Privatized workloads. [40:08] How the cloud can make our lives easier and enhance what we are already doing. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Ep 250: Responsible AI with Greg Leonardo Greg Leonardo — Cloud Daily Wire Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

29 Tammi 202441min

Andrew Lock: Containers in .NET 8 - Episode 281

Andrew Lock: Containers in .NET 8 - Episode 281

Andrew Lock is a senior software engineer at Datadog, working out of Devon, in the UK. He is a Microsoft MVP, Author of ASP.NET Core in Action, and has an active blog all about his experience working with .NET and ASP.NET Core. Topics of Discussion: [3:08] What is Andrew working on these days? [3:42] The push towards open telemetry in .NET and the ecosystem in general. [4:49] In Andrew's opinion, open telemetry is ready for use, but there is still much to learn. [6:58] The state of containers for .NET developers. [9:48] The use of chiseled containers. [15:46] Using chiseled containers for that extra level of security. [17:01] The different levels of chiseling. [19:04] What does it mean to be a self-contained ASP.NET application? [23:52] Other big container changes, including running as a non-root user and the default port inside the Docker container changing. [28:18] Port 8080 and the user App. [30:12] Windows containers for testing. [33:14] The repeatability of Dockers containers. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Andrew Lock "Ep 198: Andrew Luck: Web Applications in Net6" Updates to Docker Images in .NET8 Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

22 Tammi 202436min

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