Darren Farber - The Business of Defense - [Invest Like the Best, EP.417]

My guest this week is remarkable. He now applies his talents on Wall Street, searching for smaller cap companies trading at huge discounts in an effort to compound wealth for his investors. He is classically trained, having earned his graduate degree from Colombia, a school known for producing value investors. But his method also reflects what he learned across more than a decade of active duty in the U.S. military. Mike Zapata served us all as a Navy SEAL in the aftermath of 9/11 and ultimately as a member of the SEAL’s “Development Group,” commonly known as SEAL team 6. I think everyone listening strives for excellence in what they do. This week we get to hear from someone who has pursued excellence on our behalf. I’ll let him explain the meaning of his firm’s name, Sententia, but for now suffice to say we are lucky to have quiet professionals like Mike. If you are interested in supporting the families of soldiers who fought with Mike and lost their lives, I encourage you to check out the Tip of the Spear foundation and make a donation along with me, small or large. Please enjoy my conversation with Mike Zapata. For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast. Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub. Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag   Books Referenced The Intelligent Investor: The Definitive Book on Value Investing. A Book of Practical Counsel Fearless: The Undaunted Courage and Ultimate Sacrifice of Navy SEAL Team SIX Operator Adam Brown Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War   Show Notes 2:23   2:23 – (First Question) – A quick overview of Mike’s career leading up to his time at Columbia 3:43 – What led him down the path of value investing at Columbia              3:51 – The Intelligent Investor: The Definitive Book on Value Investing. A Book of Practical Counsel 5:57 – The focus and goal of the firm 7:12 – Where the name of the firm, Sententia comes from 8:04 – His experience in the Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL (BUD/S) program and lessons learned from it 13:14 – How much grit is innate vs can be learned 14:59 – What the actual job was in BUD/S 17:33 – Difference between the broader SEAL community and being part of the more exclusive development group 19:03 – The team dynamic within the SEALS 20:26 – Fearless: The Undaunted Courage and Ultimate Sacrifice of Navy SEAL Team SIX Operator Adam Brown 21:18 – The sacrifice that SEALs make with the story of Adam Brown as an example 24:35 – Waiting for darkness before deployment 27:23 – How do you know when to violate your best practices for a risk 29:26 – A look at three pictures in his office and why they are meaningful 31:36 – Lessons that would be useful to other people             33:10 – Boyd: The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War 33:17 – How is Mike’s skillset applied to the investing world 39:24 – Factors that would be seen as good alignment in businesses 40:18 – How the view the profiles of other investors in these small businesses 41:46 – Examples of “smoke and fire”, markers of an attractive investment 43:42 – Other investors that he has learned the most from and what those lessons were 44:54 – Importance of balance sheets in value investing 47:33 – Is value investment oversaturated 50:28 – Market blind spots that are attractive to Mike 52:03 – What point in Mike’s career has he felt the most alive 53:14 – Any other lessons Mike would want to share 55:12 – Kindest thing anyone has done for Mike   Learn More For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.  Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag

29 Touko 201859min

I came across this week’s guest thanks to the overlap of three passions of mine: data informed investing, value creation, and basketball. Sam Hinkie worked for more than a decade in the NBA with the Houston Rockets, and then most recently as the President and GM of the Philadelphia 76ers. He helped launch basketball's analytics movement when he joined the Houston Rockets in 2005, and is known for unique trade structuring and a keen focus on acquiring undervalued players. Today, he is also an investor and advisor to a limited number of young companies in which he feels his experience can improve outcomes.  Please enjoy this unique episode with Sam Hinkie.    Show Notes 3:24 – (First Question) Advantages of having a long view and how to structurally harness one 6:08 – Using technology to foster an innovative culture            6:18– Empire of the Summer Moon: Quanah Parker and the Rise and Fall of the Comanches, the Most Powerful Indian Tribe in American History 10:16 – Favorite example of applied innovation from Sam’s career 11:34 - Most fun aspect of doing data analytics early on the Houston Rockets 13:38 - Is there anything more important than courage in asymmetric outcomes 14:29 – How does Sam know when to let the art of decision making finish where the data started 16:29 - Pros and cons of a contrarian mindset 17:26 – Where he wanted to apply his knowledge in sports when first getting out of school and how his thinking is best applied in the current sports landscape 21:39 – How does he think about trying to find the equivalent of mispriced assets in the NBA 23:12 – Where tradition can be an impediment to innovation 25:07 – What did the team and workflow of the team look like in the front office 27:03 - The measure of truth in a sports complex 29:10 – What were the early factors coming out of the data that helped to shape NBA teams 30:42 – Best tactics for hiring 33:59 – Process of recruiting spectacular people 35:39 – Thoughts on fostering a good marriage 37:57 – Picking your kids traits in your spouse            38:02 – Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids: Why Being a Great Parent is Less Work and More Fun Than You Think 40:45 – What kind of markers does he look for when evaluating long term investment ideas 42:44 – His interest in machine learning 45:55 – What’s more exciting, the actual advances in machine learning or the applications that can be imagined as a result            47:15– International Justice Mission 48:11 – How he got started teaching negotiations and some of the points he makes in that class 49:16 – Effective techniques for negotiating 50:03 – Is negotiating contentious, do you need empathy 50:41 – A Rorschach test of Sam based on his reading of Lessons of History (book) 53:01 – Biggest risk Sam took in his career 54:37 – Biggest risks Sam took while with the 76ers 58:09 – Do people undervalue asymmetric outcomes in the NBA 1:00:11 – The players Sam has enjoyed watching over the years 1:02:45 – Why Robert Caro is a favorite author of his 1:04:30 – Kindest thing anyone has done for Sam

22 Touko 20181h 7min

My guest this week is a bundle of curiosity, and that is one of the nicest things I could say about someone. For several years, Tren Griffin has been writing a weekly blog post that highlights things he has learned from various investors, businesspeople, musicians, comedians, and more. Lately, he has also been tackling individual businesses, and broad topics like scaling, competitive forces, and product market fit. Tren’s full time job is serving as a director at Microsoft. He’s also worked with or for several well know businesspeople and investors like Craig McCaw, and written several books including one on lessons for entrepreneurs, one on Charlie Munger, and another on negotiation.   We discuss value creation vs. value capture, alpha in investing, sales, hip hop, and why he’d teach high school students about convexity through a drunk driving analogy. I could have talked to Tren for much longer than I did, but sadly, we both had flights to catch.  If you take anything away from this, I hope its just how much fun it is to just be curious about business, and how you can learn a tremendous amount if you just keep reading about the things that interest you and talking to others. Please enjoy my conversation with Tren Griffin. For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast. Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub. Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag   Show Notes 2:26 – (First question) – key levers of the universal business model 4:26 – How do you know when you’ve achieved real value creation 6:24 – Importance of value capture and how they enhance value creation  6:31 – Zero to One: Notes on Startups, or How to Build the Future 9:08 – Price power 10:28 – Are discussions of moats more useful to businesses than to investors 13:12 - What Tren learned during his early years working with Craig McCaw 16:28 – The Outsiders: Eight Unconventional CEOs and Their Radically Rational Blueprint for Success 16:36 – The skill of capital allocation 18:37 – How would Buffett and Munger bet on tech if they were starting out today and their philosophy of betting against change 21:57 – How Tren became so fascinated with Charlie and what he’s learned from him 22:32 – The Alchemy of Finance 23:17 – Damn Right: Behind the Scenes with Berkshire Hathaway Billionaire Charlie Munger 23:19 – Poor Charlie's Almanack: The Wit and Wisdom of Charles T. Munger 25:21 – Most memorable moment or lesson from Charlie 19:20 – How he thinks about factor investing 31:25 – What are the scalability features that make a business attractive 31:28 – A Dozen Attributes of a Scalable Business 35:37 – Exploring some of the other important levers of businesses, such as subscriptions, customer acquisition cost, and more. 36:20 – Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In 37:11 – Wholesale transfer pricing 39:18 – Pros and cons of subscription business models 43:14 – Magic of getting products distributed 44:58 – Best sale Tren’s ever made 46:46 – Most important lesson for young people 50:16 – Tren’s interest in hip-hop and how it helps him reach more people 53:49 – A look at some interesting quotes from Jim Barksdale 58:22 – Learning by doing 1:00:48 – Seeing like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed 1:01:06 – Period of his career that he felt most alive 1:03:03 – Advice for young people thinking about business and entrepreneurship 1:04:56 – Why are so few people passionate about what they do for a living 1:10:44 – Kindest thing anyone has done for Tren   Learn More For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.  Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag

15 Touko 20181h 14min

I believe that any investment strategy that will deliver strong returns in the future must evolve. Any strategy should rest on rock solid foundational principles, which change rarely if ever—things like price discipline, or business growth. But the features of the strategy must keep getting better, because the marketplace is incredibly competitive. That evolution is the topic of today’s conversation with Jason Karp. Jason is the founder and CIO of Tourbillon Capital Partners, a multi-billion dollar asset manager based in New York City. We cover a ton of interesting ground. We start with what has happened in public and private markets, discussing the role of quants, passive indexes, and value vs. deep value investing. We compare the relative merits of investing in private equities, and where and how opportunities arise. We then focus in on two interesting private investing trends: the health and wellness sector and the cannabis industry. First, we discuss Hu kitchen and Hu Products, the food business that Jason started with his family several years ago in response to personal health challenges. Second, we discuss his evolved views on Cannabis as an investment space and why it may also represent a massive growth opportunity. You all know I value transparency, so it is important to note that since I recorded the conversation, my family became an investor in Hu Products. It has been a fascinating means to learn about the food, health, and wellness industry which has grown rapidly in recent years. We were customers of Hu in New York City long before I even knew Jason, which made that part of the conversation especially interesting for me. This episode re-enforced my believe in pushing one’s investing strategy to adapt to change market conditions and competitive pressures. If we have any hope of beating Vanguard, we can’t ever rest on our laurels. This was an especially eclectic and fun conversation, I hope you enjoy my chat with Jason Karp. For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast. Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub. Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag   Show Notes 3:06 – (First question) –  Jason’s view on private markets vs public markets and how his view has evolved 6:02 – Phase of the private markets where companies can achieve huge size and scale without going public 10:31 – Framework of Jason’s value-based investing strategy 13:47 – Reverse discounted cash flow 16:27 – Are there areas of the market that are easier to predict using Jason’s models 20:29 – Tech dominance the longer they are around             21:01 – Jerry Neumann Podcast Episode 22:08 – How markets have changed over Jason’s career 25:58 – Types of edge that you can have in the market 30:00 – Broad examples of sectors that are high-quality, but momentum is hurting them 31:32 – Backstory of Hu Kitchen 38:33 – Investment research into health and wellness 42:56 – State of acquisitions, particularly in consumer product goods 47:13 – Jason’s research into Cannabis 50:43 – The misperceptions of Cannabis 56:30 – Why cannabis is a more important sector to consider than crypto 57:51 – What are the most important levers to growing a business 1:02:24 – Biggest lessons learned in hiring good people 1:06:10 – Investing lessons 1:09:27 – Kindest thing anyone has done for Jason   Learn More For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.  Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag

8 Touko 20181h 15min

My guest this week is Chris Douvos, a managing partner at Venture Investment Associates, which allocates 1.6B in behalf of investors.  Chris is the first professional allocator I’ve spoken with who focuses specifically on venture capital funds, so I had a ton of questions for him on how to build a portfolio in an asset class known for uncertain, but often enormous, outcomes. We discuss the major recent changes in the asset class and where things might be going. I sought Chris out because while this is an investment style that is full of creativity and hope, I’ve always felt it could use a healthy dose of skepticism and a value investor’s mindset. He delivers in spades as we try to separate the real from the ideal.  We didn’t record it, but Chris’s tour of Palo Alto was one of the most interesting and entertaining hours I’ve spent. He is a student of history and markets, and I look forward to learning more from him in the future.  Please enjoy our conversation   For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast. Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub. Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag   Books Referenced Pioneering Portfolio Management: An Unconventional Approach to Institutional Investment   Links Referenced Domino Rally Business Models All About the Benjamins Speak Like the Locals David Salem podcast episode Curveball   Show Notes 2:18 – (First question) – Four factors that Chris thinks are important for future success of venture firms; portfolio concentration; repeatability; being early; size discipline 7:40 – What the venture landscape looks like today from Chris’s viewpoint             8:32 – Pioneering Portfolio Management: An Unconventional Approach to Institutional Investment 14:07 – Is there a glut of startups making it difficult for investors 17:33 – How does Chris think about the investments that are a bit different from what everyone else is investing in in Silicon Valley 19:17 – Why he focuses on college campuses for innovation 20:54 – The role that geography plays in venture 25:06 – The Four M’s; money, momentum, mentorship, entrepreneurial management 27:13 – Chris’s perspective on crypto currency as a threat to venture capital 31:44 – The idea of venture capitalists as service providers to the companies they are investing in 35:15 -  Views on investing in hyper focused VC’s vs those that are generalists and just go after the best opportunities in any sector 39:00 – What hot button areas are of most interest to Chris and why, from an investment standpoint             39:38 – Domino Rally Business Models 42:22 -  What can a public market investor learn from a value venture investor who mostly has to rely on qualitative metrics             43:08 – All About the Benjamins 44:38 – Portfolio construction in the world of venture             46:40 – Speak Like the Locals 48:00 -  What are the characteristics that Chris looks for in managers, as an allocator 53:52 – What type of investors should and should not be in venture 59:15 – What type of allocator would Chris give all of his money to             59:47 – David Salem podcast episode             1:01:06 – Curveball 1:01:40 – Kindest thing anyone has done for Chris   Learn More For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.  Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag

1 Touko 20181h 8min

My guest today is Arianna Simpson, who has spent her career in an around the world of technology working at startups, Facebook, and now in venture capital as an investor focused on the world of cryptocurrencies. I met Arianna when I hosted a panel at a big investing conference in New York City and she was one of the panelists. On the panel, I found her style to be very straightforward and compelling. It is clear that she loves to learn and that the best manifestation of her style of learning is investing in technology. In our conversation we discuss broad trends in crypto that we haven’t spent much time on before: decentralized versus centralized exchanges, privacy coins, and evaluating a found or early team. We build a framework for learning about this new asset class, discuss the importance of travel, and the value of pushing oneself outside of comfort zones. Hash Power is presented by Fidelity Investments Please enjoy our conversation For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast. Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub. Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag   Show Notes 2:12 – (First question) – How to teach someone else to build an investing philosophy around crypto 4:00 – The major risk factors to investing in crypto 6:28 – best practices for mitigating risk 7:39 – What factors to think about when it comes to whether a token will lose all value or not 8:39 -  Taking a pulse of the investment community on crypto 11:36 – How she heard about and became interested in crypto currencies 12:34 – Are people really using crypto currency as a hedge against rampant inflation 13:52 – Investing thesis in the space 14:07 – Arianna’s systems for learning about cryptocurrencies and staying up to date on them 15:19 – Arianna’s take on the issue of increasing transactional through put 16:49 – Layer 1 solutions and making it all scalable on a blockchain 17:56 – her take on the fat protocol thesis 20:32 – Defining utility vs security tokens 21:54 – evaluating different coins 21:02 – Why cross currency swaps are important and how they work 26:17 – What are the chances of a scenario where there’s just one token and everything is built off of that one 28:02 -  Comparing centralized and decentralized exchanges 29:47 – How the traditional investing world is going to regulate transaction involving cryptocurrencies and view security around those transactions 31:54– Impact this will have on capital formation 33:44 – Evaluating teams behind crypto companies 35:48 – The importance of gut when evaluating people 38:47 – How Arianna’s global upbringing impacts her thinking on the technology 39:51 – What countries or regions have had the largest impact on Arianna’s investing philosophy 42:41 – Doing things you’re not qualified for 43:59 – Gender imbalance in crypto and what can be done to shift that 45:28 – Most recent thing that has gotten Arianna excited in the crypto space 46:15 – Explaining Zero X 47:33 – How her views on reading have evolved 48:54 - Kindest thing anyone has done for Arianna Learn More For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.  Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag

24 Huhti 201853min

We’ve always found that even in public equities, you learn more once you have a live portfolio. One of the best ways to learn is to put some capital at risk. For this episode, I asked two VCs to sit down with me and Brett and treat the conversation as they would a normal pitch meeting, so that we, the audience, can get a peek into their world and the types of questions they ask. The venture capitalists in question are Thatcher Bell, of CoVenture, and Taylor Greene, of Collaborative Fund. The first voice that you’ll hear is Thatcher, and the next person asking questions is Taylor. I began by asking Thatcher to give us a bit of background on how he approaches young companies before diving in with questions of his own.   Show Notes 3:12 – (First Question) – getting a flywheel business going 4:49 – Brett’s background and how that led to the formation of Ladder 7:58 – Breakdown of the product 9:29 – The sign-up process 10:29 – Key problem for each party of the ladder transaction 12:34 – Diving deeper into the problem of being a health coach 14:29 – How does Ladder differentiate itself from other apps that help people locate a trainer 17:01 – A deeper dive into the consumer using this product 20:28 – The accountability factor being the moat for Ladder 24:12 - How successful is the product right now in terms of recruiting new customers and trainers 28:38 – Their pre-launch interview and research process 31:49 – Going from hypothesis to product development 35:25 – What should founders think about when doing customer discovery, even after they have a product in the market 39:22 – Optimizing in the early stage of a business 43:24 – The defensive moat of a startup 46:20 – Their take on their ability to corner the coaches in this market 49:57 – Is there a side of the producer/consumer side of the equation that is more important. 55:42 – Getting and giving value to your supply, in this case the coaches 58:22 – How to view different phases of a business 1:00:43 – Growing the supply and demand so that neither side gets aggravated 1:02:28 – Market opportunity for Ladder 1:10:55 – Top 2 or 3 goals that Ladder has over the next 12-18 months 1:13:00 – Looking at Ladder, what are the strengths and weaknesses as a potential investment 1:20:40 – Pros and cons of a startup seeking institutional VC money 1:25:11 – Reviewing the pitch

17 Huhti 20181h 31min

My guest this week helps me complete the first trilogy of guests on the podcast. His name is Nikhil Kalghatgi. Along with past guests Ali Hamed and Savneet Singh, Nikhil is a partner at the asset management firm CoVenture. If you liked those two conversations, you will love this one—it is somehow even more wide-ranging than the first two. Nikhil is the CEO of CoVenture Crypto, but he ended up there because of an overarching investing style that he calls moonshot investing, which we explore right from the start and in great detail. He is obsessed with productivity and happiness, and we spend a long time on those topics. One of the most interesting experiments I’ve heard about on the podcast is his Happiness project, for which he interviewed more than 100 of the wealthiest people in the world. The lessons he gleaned from those conversations are very helpful, and I won’t soon forget the lesson related to sacrifice. We also discuss asteroid mining, networking, shared experience, and philosophy. Oh and crypto currencies. Nikhil’s take on crypto has always been refreshing to me. In fact the first time I met him he was throwing cold water on a room full of enthusiastic crypto investors. Within crypto we discuss business opportunities, mining, and how new retail and institutional capital will affect the asset class.  Hash Power is presented by Fidelity Investments. Please enjoy this sparkling conversation with Nikhil Kalghatgi.   For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast. Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub. Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag   Show Notes 2:42 – (First Question) –  What moonshot investing is 4:41 – Creating sustainable differential investment advantage 9:30 – Assessing the market for moonshots 12:15 – Types of people suited for moonshots  13:42 – The Happiness Project 17:45 – Commonalities among successful people 25:15 – The importance of humor in life 17:16 – Recipe for a good joke 28:00 – The night Patrick and Nikhil met 29:17 – His perspective on the world of venture capital 33:26 – What did Nikhil learn from his time at SoftBank 34:52 – Craziest thing Nikhil has done 40:27 – What he took away from his time in military intelligence 46:10 – The idea of manufactured serendipity 47:13 – Nikhil’s approach to investing in cryptocurrency and what he finds interesting about it 53:23 – How Nikhil reconciles the excitement of crypto with the lack of tangible asset 58:10– The timeline of retail and institutional investors becoming more involved in crypto 1:02:43– Exploring their liquidity strategy 1:04:10 – What happens if regulators shut down the cryptomarkets 1:09:48– The role of miners in crypto and how that might change moving forward 1:10:43 – What is the frontier of crypto mining 1:12:31 – What’s the most compelling rabbit hole in crypto 1:16:23 – How would the original creators of crypto currency feel about the current state of the market 1:20:01 – What Nikhil sees as the value proposition for the whole ecosystem. 1:21:00 – Kindest thing anyone has done for Nikhil   Learn More For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast.  Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub Follow Patrick on twitter at @patrick_oshag

10 Huhti 20181h 23min