Interesting Times with Ross Douthat17 Huhti 2025

What if There’s No Way to Stop Trump’s Approach to Power?

President Trump may forever reshape the boundaries of executive power. This week on “Interesting Times,” Ross and Jack Goldsmith, who was the head of the White House’s Office of Legal Counsel under President George W. Bush, discuss which cases are most likely to win in the courts and permanently expand the executive branch — for better or worse.

00:02:03 Donald Trump’s “moonshot on executive power”
00:04:16 What has surprised Goldsmith the most
00:06:57 Are we in a constitutional crisis?
00:08:59 Alien Enemies Act
00:14:02 The case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia
00:25:23 Godel’s loophole and Supreme Court enforcement
30:10 Trump’s firings of federal employees and restructuring of U.S.A.I.D.
36:11 Trump’s power over congressionally appropriated funding
41:29 Obama v. Trump’s discretion on enforcing laws passed by Congress
43:03 The TikTok case
45:46 Lawsuit over Trump’s tariffs
51:57 How the Supreme Court (maybe) thinks about picking its battles
54:24 Worst case scenarios
56:59 What the Supreme Court can do if the Trump administration does not comply
01:01:32 What a Trump executive power revolution could look like in 2028 and beyond
01:04:39 If Democrats win in 2028, what happens?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com.

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