Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast8 Touko 2025

Technology vs Transition?: What Tony Blair gets right - and wrong - about net zero

Former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair says that net zero is politically unachievable without radical rethinking: a shift away from reducing consumption and toward technologies that can remove carbon both at the source and from the atmosphere. So, are carbon capture and carbon removal really viable - and more palatable - alternatives to a rapid fossil fuel phaseout? And is our net zero strategy failing, or simply failing to be explained?

Hosts Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac, and Paul Dickinson dive into the heart of these questions and explore what Blair’s comments mean for the wider net zero debate. At a time when climate action is becoming increasingly politicised and weaponised, they consider how we might frame net zero as something that improves people’s lives, rather than threatening them. And how we can ensure that every credible climate solution stays on the table.

With timely and provocative contributions from listeners and friends of the podcast - including former BBC News Science Editor David Shukman and Senior Policy Advisor at Carbonfuture Sebastian Manhart - the hosts ask: can we rescue the net zero brand before it’s written off?

Learn more

📘 The Tony Blair Institute’s report, ‘The Climate Paradox: Why We Need to Reset Action on Climate Change’

✈️ ‘Aviation industry is ‘failing dramatically’ on climate, insiders say’ in the Guardian

🌱 The Future We Choose, by Christiana Figueres and Tom Rivett-Carnac

📣 Our previous episode on communicating climate change with John Marshall, whose work Christiana references in this episode

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Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producer: Ellie Clifford

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

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Inside COP: Coal’s Out, Pressure’s On - a pivotal moment for COP30

It’s getting hot in the COP.Executive Secretary Simon Stiell turned up the pressure in Belém on Monday, sharpening his message as ministers arrived for what is often the most charged phase of the summ...

18 Marras 202540min

Inside COP: The fight for the Amazon

As ministers arrive in Belém for the crucial second week of COP30, forests move from the backdrop of the summit to the main stage. Protests began at dawn on Friday and have continued through the weeke...

17 Marras 202544min

Inside COP: Al Gore on Fossil Fuel Lobbying and (In)convenient Truths

It’s the mid-point of COP30 and all four of our hosts have gathered in Belém to take stock.In the Blue Zone, the mood is its usual blend of high-stakes and surreal. The Presidency is calling its consu...

15 Marras 202556min

Inside COP: The UN’s Top Climate Official on Week One of COP30

Christiana Figueres takes us behind the scenes at the UNFCCC offices to speak to the man who now holds her old job as Executive Secretary. As week one of the negotiations nears its end, Simon Stiell e...

14 Marras 202541min

Inside COP: Protests at COP30 - and the reality of Indigenous representation

At a COP meant to centre the Amazon, some Indigenous voices have found themselves on the outside.On Tuesday night, what began as a vibrant street march ended in a dramatic breach of the Blue Zone, as ...

13 Marras 202538min

Inside COP: Is The US Still In? And Gavin Newsom on ‘invasive species’ Trump

Day three of COP30, and there’s one elephant not in the room.While there are plenty of United States citizens at this COP, for the first time, there are no US delegates. Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivet...

12 Marras 202537min

Inside COP: Brazil's Climate Leadership - the COP30 host takes centre stage

What is Brazil trying to achieve with COP30? It's Day Two in Belém and all eyes are on the host nation. Join Christiana Figueres and Tom Rivett-Carnac as they unpack how the country is shaping the fir...

11 Marras 202543min

Inside COP: The COP30 President Speaks, the Summit Begins

COP30 is here! Day one dawns in the Amazon, and all eyes are on the host nation - and on the man tasked with steering the talks.On the eve of what could be the most consequential COP since Paris, Chri...

10 Marras 202538min