204. The 4 Horsemen of Meaning | Bishop Barron, John Vervaeke, and Jonathan Pageau

Jordan Peterson sits down with writer, musician, and podcaster Winston Marshall. They discuss the nature of identity on the community and national levels, the relationship between a nation and its citizens, how the UK has a rich culture that is worth preserving, and the unifying question that has still yet to be answered.   Winston Marshall is a writer, musician, and host of “The Winston Marshall Show.” In 2007 Winston co-founded folk-rock band Mumford & Sons. In their fourteen years together the band won 2 Grammy Awards, 2 Brit Awards, an Ivor Novello and performed with the likes of Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young, Willie Nelson and Elton John. In 2017 he released the techno-fusion album ‘Silk’ in collaboration with HVOB. His remix work includes Maggie Rogers and Jack Garrett. His written work has been published by The Free Press, The Jewish Chronicle, The Spectator, The Daily Mail. Through 2022 and 2023 he hosted the podcast ‘Marshall Matters’ at The Spectator.   This episode was filmed on February 22nd, 2025.     | Links |   For Winston Marshall:   On X https://x.com/mrwinmarshall?lang=en   Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@winston_marshall   Substack https://www.winstonmarshall.co.uk/     Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

3 Huhti 20251h 37min

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with ex-Congressman, ambassador, and author Mark Siljander. They discuss the numerous times he brokered peace in Middle Eastern and African conflicts, the Neo-con worldview, Donald Trump, his role in the Abraham Accords, pushing back against Islamism, and how to build a bridge between true Islam and the west.   Mark Siljander is an ex-Congressman, ambassador, and author of “A Dangerous Misunderstanding: A Congressman's Quest to Bridge the Muslim-Christian Divide.   This episode was filmed on March 5th 2025   | Links |   For Mark Siljander:   Read “A Deadly Misunderstanding: A Congressman's Quest to Bridge the Muslim-Christian Divide” https://a.co/d/6skKSkA  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

31 Maalis 20251h 31min

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with researcher, neuroscientist, and author, Dr. Baland Jalal. They discuss human embodiment, the rubber hand experiments (which push embodiment beyond the physical), the deeper functionality of dreams, sleep paralysis, and a potential theory to explain alien abductions.   Dr. Jalal is a neuroscientist and author at Harvard and previously a Visiting Researcher at Cambridge University Medical School where he obtained his PhD. Dr. Jalal's work has been featured in the The New York Times, Washington Post, The Today Show, The BBC, Chicago Tribune, The Guardian, NBC News, New York Magazine, The Times, The Telegraph, Forbes, Der Spiegel, Reuters, Fox News, Discover Magazine, VICE, and PBS (NOVA). He writes for Time Magazine, Scientific American, Big Think, and Boston Globe. The Telegraph and BBC described him as “one of the world’s leading experts on sleep paralysis,” and he was ranked the "top-rated expert in sleep paralysis in the world" on Expertscape based on scientific impact in the past 10 years.   This episode was filmed on January 17th, 2025.     | Links |   For Dr. Baland Jalal   On X https://x.com/balandjalalphd   On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/balandjalal/?hl=en   Read “Transdiagnostic Multiplex CBT for Muslim Cultural Groups: Treating Emotional Disorders” (2020) https://a.co/d/d1nZUwP  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

27 Maalis 20251h 46min

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with John Vervaeke and Jordan Hall. They discuss the vertical dimension, proper orientation within the hierarchy of values, the normative versus the ethical, and what makes something more “real” in a pragmatic and philosophical sense.   John Vervaeke is an associate professor of psychology & cognitive science at the University of Toronto. John publishes and conducts research on the nature of intelligence, rationality, wisdom & meaning in life emphasizing relevance realization, non-propositional kinds of knowing & 4E cognitive science.   Jordan Hall, previously known as Jordan Greenhall, is an entrepreneur and systems thinker with a focus on the intersection of technology, culture, and governance. Hall co-founded DivX, Inc., a pioneer in digital video technology, where he served as CEO and Executive Chairman through its early growth and IPO. Prior to that, he was a key figure at MP3.com, helping to revolutionize the digital music space. His early career also includes a brief stint as a lawyer, having earned his law degree from Harvard before transitioning into technology leadership and investment.   This episode was filmed on December 27th, 2024.     | Links |   For Jordan Hall:   On X https://x.com/jgreenhall?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor   On YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMzT-mdCqoyEv_-YZVtE7MQ     For John Vervaeke:   On X https://x.com/drjohnvervaeke?lang=en   On Youtube https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke   Website https://johnvervaeke.com/   Find John Vervaeke on Lectern http://lectern.teachable.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

24 Maalis 20251h 52min

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with Clementine Breen, a child who was moved through the transgender pipeline and has since de-transitioned. Together they walk through her story (from early sexual abuse to the daunting decision to undergo affirming surgery), the confusion and fallout thereafter, reorientation, and her lawsuit against the doctor who led her astray.   Clementine Breen is a de-transitioner who experienced early sexual abuse before having her gender dysphoria misdiagnosed as being transgender. Top surgery was sold to her at age 13, all the while her parents were told the atrocious “dead daughter or living son” lie. She is currently embroiled in a landmark lawsuit against her former doctor, Dr. Olson Kennedy.   This episode was filmed on January 1st, 2025.     | Links |   For Clementine Breen: On X https://x.com/clementine_fb Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

20 Maalis 20251h 40min

Jordan Peterson sits down with retired co-founder and co-CEO of Research in Motion, known predominantly for the BlackBerry. They discuss how Balsillie helped transition the world into the smartphone age, Canada’s faltering economic performance (well before Trump’s trade war), why America is taking these actions now, and the ideas of Mark Carney (Trudeau on steroids).   Mr. Balsillie is the retired chairman and co-CEO of Research in Motion (BlackBerry), a technology company he scaled from an idea to $20 billion in sales globally. His private investment office includes global and domestic technology investments.   He is the co-founder of the Institute for New Economic Thinking in New York and founder of the Council of Canadian Innovators based in Toronto, the Digital Governance Council in Ottawa, and the Centre for International Governance Innovation in Waterloo, as well as the Centre for Digital Rights, the Balsillie School of International Affairs, the Arctic Research Foundation, and Canadian SHIELD Institute. He currently chairs the boards of CCI, CIGI, Innovation Asset Collective, and Digital Governance Council. He is also a member of the Board of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and the Advisory Board of the Stockholm Resilience Centre; an Honorary Captain (Navy) of the Royal Canadian Navy, and an advisor to Canada School of Public Service.   This episode was filmed on March 7th, 2025.     | Links |   For Jim Balsillie:   Read the article "We're All Economic Nationalist's Now" for a better understanding of how the U.S. and Canada trade https://nationalpost.com/opinion/we-are-all-economic-nationalists-now       Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

17 Maalis 20251h 52min

Jordan Peterson sits down with bestselling author, commentator, and researcher, Dr. Corey DeAngelis. They shed light on where 50% of all state budgets are spent, the surprising stack of monopolies that strangleholds public education, the partisan lies surrounding school choice, and the truth every parent needs to know: school choice uplifts all students.   Dr. Corey A. DeAngelis is a senior fellow at the American Culture Project and a visiting fellow at the American Institute for Economic Research. He has been labeled the “school choice evangelist” and called “the most effective school choice advocate since Milton Friedman.” He is a regular on Fox News and frequently appears in The Wall Street Journal. DeAngelis is also the executive director at Educational Freedom Institute, a senior fellow at Reason Foundation, an adjunct scholar at Cato Institute, a board member at Liberty Justice Center, and a senior advisor at Accuracy in Media. He holds a Ph.D. in education policy from the University of Arkansas. He is the national bestselling author of “The Parent Revolution: Rescuing Your Kids from the Radicals Ruining Our Schools.”   This episode was filmed on February 28th, 2025.     | Links |   For Corey DeAngelis:   On X https://x.com/DeAngelisCorey?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor   Read his most recent book “The Parent Revolution: Rescuing Your Kids from the Radicals Ruining Our Schools”  https://amzn.to/4h3wAeK   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

13 Maalis 20251h 28min

Jordan Peterson sits down with professor, author, and columnist Dr. Arthur Brooks. They discuss the physicality of happiness, how aim sets perception, the paradox of progress, the need for proper discernment, and how sustained maturity sets you up for the adventure of your life.   This episode was filmed on January 7th, 2025.   Dr. Arthur Brooks began his professional life as a classic French hornist. He left college at age 19, touring and recording with the Annapolis Brass Quintet and, later, the City Orchestra of Barcelona. While still performing in his late 20s he returned to school and achieved a Ph.D. by 34. Brooks is now the Parker Gilbert Montgomery Professor of the Practice of Public and Nonprofit Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School and Professor of the Management Practice at the Harvard Business School. He is also a columnist at the Atlantic and the author of 14 books, including the #1 New York Times bestseller, “Build the Life You Want: The Art and Science of Getting Happier” (2023).     | Links |   For Dr. Authur Brooks:   On X https://x.com/arthurbrooks/highlights   Website https://arthurbrooks.com/   Dr. Brooks’ most recent book Build the Life You Want: The Art and Science of Getting Happier https://a.co/d/e5fJY2R  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

10 Maalis 20251h 41min