#39 Sandor Katz - How to Ferment, Koji, Sake, Lactic Acid Bacteria, Wild Fermentation, Kefir, Kombucha, Cultures

Sandor Katz is ften called a “fermentation revivalist,” Sandor has spent decades exploring how microbes shape our food, our drinks, our culture, and even our sense of place. He has written a number of book son the subject including Wild Fermentation, The Art of Fermentation, Fermentation as Metaphor, and Fermentation Journeys — the latter chronicling his travels to meet fermentation practitioners across the globe. His bestselling The Art of Fermentation won a James Beard Award and has become the definitive modern guide to the craft. In this conversation, we journey from the very origins of fermentation and the metabolism of alcohol to the staggering variety of fermented foods and drinks in our diets — and why they’re so much more than just flavour. We dismantle common misconceptions around health, freshness, and speed, and dive deep into Sandor’s own path into this microbial worldAlong the way, we unpack the fascinating interplay of bacteria, yeast, and mould, the difference between wild and cultured ferments, and how fermentation can capture the essence of a place, from mezcal to sourdough. We explore everything from lightly fermented tonic beverages and experimental meads to the wonders of koji mould and its transformative enzymes. And yes — we even get into the bad, weird, and downright challenging ferments, from stinky tofu to the notorious surströmming.Whether you’re a brewer, bartender, chef, or simply curious about the invisible life that feeds us, this episode is a deep dive into a living tradition — one that’s as old as civilisation, and as alive as the microbes themselves.

02:55 The Origins of Fermentation - Metabolism of Alcohol
06:42 The Breadth of Fermented Foods in our Diets - Flavour, Preservation, Texture
09:45 Misconceptions About Fermented Food & Drink - Language, Health, Germophobia, Challenging the Notions of Fresh & Fast
21:04 Sandor’s Journey in Fermentation - Childhood Encounters, Macrobiotic Diet
24:25 Gardening, Fermenting Tomatoes, Other Preservation Techniques, Fermentation Traditions
29:50 Microbes: Bacteria, Yeast & Mould - Isolation, Symbiosis, Environmental Conditions, Making Sauerkraut
37:14 Pathogenic Bacteria vs. Lactic Acid Bacteria
38:17 Wild vs. Cultured Fermentation - Backslopping, Sourdough, Making Yoghurt, Pure Culture Starters, Natto Bacteria
47:25 Fermentation as a Manifestation of Place - Mezcal, Bioprospecting for Yeast
58:00 Yeast - Efficiency vs. Flavour
59:49 Experiments in Alcohol Fermentation - Rice, Chinese Yeast Balls, Sumac Mead, Turmeric Mead
1:03:24 Tips for Wild Alcohol Fermentation - Stirring, Sugar, The Myth of Sterilisation, Protocols
1:09:00 Lightly Fermented Tonic Beverages - Tepache, Chicha, Country Wines, Orange Blossom Cordial, Meadowsweet Wine, Spruce Tip Wine, Root Beer, Ginger Beer
1:14:10 Water Kefir & Kombucha - Biology, Flavour Development, Alcohol Development, Commercialisation of Kefir & Kombucha, Origins
1:23:11 Koji Mould - Biology, Applications, Protease Enzymes, Sake, Soy Sauce
1:30:25 Use of Fermented ingredients in Bars and Restaurants - Cocktail Hacks, Sustainability, Narrative
1:37:41 Life Changing Ferments - Cheese. Stinky Tofu, Conditioning to Fermented Flavours
1:40:40 Bad/Weird/Disgusting Ferments - surströmming