Heritage and Hope

Like many of his Bamar colleagues, Khun Be Du and his Karenni community first attempted to resist the military coup through non-violent means. When that could no longer be sustained, he banded together with friends to form a local defense force. Today, he is playing a leading role in the Karenni Nationalities Defense Force (KNDF), while also serving as Deputy Minister for Natural Resources and Environmental Conservation for the National Unity Government (NUG).Tatmadaw incursions into Karenni state are not new. Khun Be Du recalls hearing about crackdowns following Ne Win’s 1962 coup, when they attempted to deprive ethnic forces of food, funding, intelligence, and recruits. Peace negotiations were finally achieved in the transition period, finally allowing much-needed development work to proceed.But the Tatmadaw has rekindled past horrors. They now station 3,500 soldiers in Karenni State and have strategically terrorized over 100 villages. “We have to fight it,” Khun Be Du says simply. He estimates that for every local fighter killed, the Burmese military loses 30 men. In the face of such untenable losses, the Tatmadaw has taken a different tack, using tanks, mortar and artillery fire against vulnerable populations, and targeting schools, hospitals, IDP camps and other civilian centers.Perhaps the Tatmadaw’s worst evil came on an otherwise holy date for the largely Christian Karenni: December 24th, 2021. Soldiers stopped vehicles and gathered passengers into a group, stole their valuables and then proceeded to torture and kill them, then burning the bodies.Given that the atrocities being perpetuated on a daily basis in Karenni state are equally as bad as the current Russian aggression in Ukraine, Khun Be Du is frustrated that the plight of his people isn’t gathering more international attention and support. He ponders, “I wonder how much we have to die so that the international community will take action.”

2 Kesä 20221h 13min

The days turned dark in March 2020 when the Burmese military began attacking and killing nonviolent protesters. Soon after the crackdown, activists still courageous enough to take to the streets began holding signs that read: “We Need R2P.” R2P, or the Responsibility to Protect, is an international norm that the UN unanimously adopted in 2005, which purports to protect populations around the world from atrocity crimes, such as ethnic cleansing. However, R2P is not a legal doctrine, and so it can only be enforced when there is the political will to do so, and Scott feels it is most certainly needed now in Myanmar. But the international community has yet to act.This inaction has caused frustration among Burmese activists who have been calling for R2P for over a year now. Our guest today, Liam Scott, believes that criticism should not be directed at the R2P doctrine itself, but rather at those international bodies who refuse to respond.Scott thinks that the NUG has certainly “been specific in what particular tools of R2P they want the international community to employ, like with arms embargoes, with sanctions on oil and gas, and with depriving the military of the legitimacy that it craves on the international stage.” He also suggests taking a more nuanced view of R2P is more realistic as well as optimistic, where “boots on the ground intervention” is the only sign of effectiveness. He hopes that there can be a string of smaller successes that gradually develop into something larger. Still, Scott confesses he simply doesn’t know what more beyond the horrible things the Tatmadaw are already doing that would push international organizations to action. And he certainly wishes something would be done. Scott points to the fact that the Burmese military has never been successfully prosecuted for any past crimes, and suggests this is one reason why they are acting now with such impunity. He admits that the wheels of justice move slowly… though perhaps far too slowly for those victims still being persecuted. “I completely recognize and empathize with the fact that so many of these questions are coming from a place of pure desperation and frustration with an international community that has done so little in response,” Scott concludes.

26 Touko 20221h 41min

The Myanmar military’s violent response to the democracy movement has caused angst among many devout Burmese Buddhists about how to defend themselves and their fundamental freedoms, while remaining true to their religion. Many are faced with that line where the cold edge of sila (ethics) melts along the warm edge of lived experience. Is sila black-and-white, or might there be more shades of grey? Bhikkhu Bodhi helps unpack this moral quandary in this follow-up discussion to our interview last year.Bhikkhu Bodhi acknowledges that the farther one’s own reality is from needing to make terrible, life-or-death choices, the easier it probably is to take an absolutist perspective on observing sila. However, those situations now unfortunately symbolize the “real reality” that the people of Myanmar face on a daily basis. What is compassionate guidance for those who do face such kinds of choices, who do have to act to save loved ones from the indiscriminate, murderous violence of the Tatmadaw, and restore basic safety and freedoms to their country? Bhikkhu Bodhi establishes two related frames of reference within which we can make reasonable choices. The first is to know the intent of our mind. It is not the action itself, but the intention that matters from a karmic perspective, and we should never kill out of hate. The second is to be sure of the reasons behind our actions. If we are not motivated by hatred of the enemy, but feel there is no other choice in order to save the lives of innocent people, it’s the very best we can do. Bhikkhu Bodhi also stresses that in the suttas, the Buddha is never depicted as being faced with these kinds of moral dilemmas. And he reminds us that this is the complex, modern, 21st century world we live in, not the 5th century BCE. So he says that the appropriate teaching around these issues is perhaps not so “obvious.”

19 Touko 20222h 14min

Kenton Clymer joins the podcast to speak about his book, "A Delicate Relationship: The United States and Burma/Myanmar since 1945." In the waning days of World War II, Americans were primarily concerned with stopping the spread of Communism, especially after Mao’s revolution, which thrust neighboring Burma into an important geopolitical position. Initially, the US thought that U Nu, Burma’s first Prime Minister, was too Socialist-leaning, while Ne Win, the eventual dictator, was seen as an anti-Communist strongman.The 1950s were a challenging decade for the Burmese government. The country’s ethnic groups were suspicious of a powerful central government—with some like the Karen actively fighting against it—and the Chinese and Americans were engaged in geopolitical maneuvering in the north of the country.After Ne Win’s second coup in 1962, the primary concern on the American side was ensuring that Burma didn’t fall into the Soviet or Chinese camp as a result. For the next 26 years, the US looked on as civil liberties continued to erode, the economy collapsed, ethnic groups pushed for greater rights, scores of Indians were exiled, and the country became increasingly isolated and shut off from the rest of the world.Besides Communism, the only other real area of American interest in Burma was the narcotics trade. As Ne Win was staunchly opposed to drugs, he accepted American support, including aircraft and intelligence sharing, to eradicate the poppy fields. However, it is uncertain how effective this collaboration was, and in fact human rights activists later discovered that the Tatmadaw used the chemical sprays on human targets in the country’s ethnic regions.The perception of Burma, and the shape of US relations, changed irrevocably in 1988, with the violent crackdown on student protests and the nullification of the subsequent election. The anti-Communist prism through which the American government’s Burma policy had been viewed for decades changed to one of human rights; Aung San Suu Kyi was its figurehead. Clymer addresses some important developments in recent Myanmar history up to the NLD’s electoral victory in 2015, when his book was published, and discusses what occurred since. While he sees recurring cycles at play in the current situation, he also has reason for optimism. He feels that the current group of Gen-Z activists will not put up with oppressive military rule like in the past.

12 Touko 20221h 57min

Ma Thida’s book, Prisoner of Conscience, details her remarkable and inspiring life journey.She was attending medical school when, in 1988, the military violently suppressed peaceful protesters. Soon, she found herself volunteering at local NLD offices that had formed in the wake of the unrest. In 1993 Ma Thida was arrested on a trumped up charge and given 20 years.Adjustment to prison life was not easy. She first found relief in the form of smuggled books, which she could only read secretly under a blanket. But over time, she turned to meditation. Transforming her prison cell into a meditation cell, she informed inmates and guards alike she would be practicing intensively for up to twenty hours per day.She worked with teachings from the Mahasi and Mogok traditions, and carried on a clandestine correspondence with Chan Myay Yeitha Sayadaw U Janaka. She mainly chose to practice Cittanupassana (contemplation of mind). And as might be expected in a prison, she focused in particular on the experience of dukkha (suffering).In the meantime and unbeknownst to her, Ma Thida’s arrest had turned into something of a cause célèbre abroad, attracting celebrity support, and even a visit from President Bill Clinton’s foreign emissary, Bill Richardson. Her case was also mentioned at the UN’s Fourth World Conference on Women held in 1995 in Beijing.Ma Thida was released in 1999, her prison sentence commuted. She did not involve herself further in politics, but has continued to followed the country’s momentous events, including the rise and fall of Aung San Suu Kyi. But as someone who was by Aung San Suu Kyi’s side during her initial rise to prominence, she expresses a concern that her status as an icon may have gone to her head, and also that she never truly understood the Tatmadaw.Today, many young Burmese activists have turned to her book to better understand their own path forward. For her part, Ma Thida, is impressed by how much this current generation seems to know, and how much and how fast they are able to learn. For this current generation of democracy activists, Ma Thida advises them to “focus on principle, not on person… [keep] an eye on the will of the majority of people, not just one person or yourself.”

5 Touko 20222h 5min

While our recent episodes have focused on the reality in Myanmar, this show explores the condition of allies outside the country who support the democracy movement. Although free from physical harm and living in basic safety, many find that they shoulder a heavy emotional burden by immersing themselves so deeply in the struggles and trauma experienced every day by the people of Myanmar, even if from afar.Rick Hanson is a mindfulness practitioner “interested in bringing a kind of Mahayana spirit of foregrounding and appreciation of notions of emptiness and sort of the unconditioned ground of all, combined with the rigor and the clarity, and the precision and the moral foundations that we find in Theravada Buddhism and in early Buddhism altogether.” He is a Senior Fellow at UC Berkeley’s Greater Good Science Center and founding the Wellspring Institute for Neuroscience and Contemplative Wisdom, as well as a best-selling author, penning Buddha’s Brain among other important works.Rick suggests several good practices to become more grounded even in the most difficult of situations. First, there is mindfulness, which he describes as the “capacity to witness your experiences, rather than being completely consumed by them, completely swept along and hijacked by them.” He notes that the Buddha taught about the importance of balancing compassion with equanimity, and how strengthening the latter is able to build up the former. The second is a “feeling of heart,” which Rick characterizes as a sense of connection with other people, or perhaps any living being, or even nature. Third is in developing a more expansive physical perspective, such as gazing at the horizon or sky, which helps bring us into the present neurologically, and dissolves self-preoccupation. And, Rick advises us to be on guard against negative concepts that can easily become embedded in heart and mind. For example, we can avoid becoming engulfed in the agony of the moment by recognizing the good that still exists in the world.Rick recommends as well that activists seek camaraderie among themselves, creating a community of mutual support, as well as to consciously imbue a sense of meaning and purpose into one’s efforts. He strongly urges activists to engage self-care, such as finding time to rest. “You can't do this stuff 24 hours a day. You need a break!”

28 Huhti 202248min

The past ten years of Myanmar’s history have certainly not been boring, and journalist Mratt Kyaw Thu has been there to chronicle a lot of it.Hailing from Rakhine state, Mratt made his way to Yangon in 2005, graduating from Dagon University and going into journalism soon after. He worked for Mizzima, where he ended up on the crime beat, and also began covering stories about the military’s snatching up bits of prime real estate throughout the country.Mratt then began filing a series of reports about the drug trade, tracing the routes that traffickers used to smuggle in methamphetamines from the Golden Triangle region. He was based in Maungdaw where, on October 9, 2016, Muslim residents of the city staged an attack on the police. Mratt instantly realized the significance of the moment, and the events he personally witnessed would resonate around the world.Later, Mratt was informed by several sources that a second attack would be coming. He urgently warned authorities at every level, but his words went unheeded. Not long after, about thirty police stations were attacked. This violence in turn became the impetus for the displacement of over 90,000 Rohingyas.Mratt returned to Maungdaw with some journalist colleagues, but they were identified as outsiders by someone who gathered a mob to harass them. The situation got dangerously tense, but eventually they managed to escape in a hired car. On the way out, Mratt saw entire Muslim villages burned to the ground.Mratt also discussed how his home region of Rakhine has been faring since the military coup. “Everyone's talking about Rakhine and the Arakan Army [AA], and why they don’t fight against the military.” Mratt notes. He explains that before the coup, many Bamar openly supported the Tatmadaw in their offensives against the AA. There are many complex negotiations taking place now.At present, Mratt is focused on telling the story of the ongoing conflict as best as he can—doing so from Spain, as being a journalist has become too personally dangerous in Myanmar since the coup. These days, Mratt has difficulty even seeing those Facebook memories that pop up automatically from previous years—they now seem filled with false optimism and fake news. “People learned a lot,” he says. “So I think those kinds of lessons learned will be something different in the future for my country and for my own people.”

21 Huhti 20222h 16min

On February 1st, 2021, General Min Aung Hlaing orchestrated a military coup in Myanmar. On February 24th, 2022, Russian President Vladimir Putin authorized missiles and airstrikes as the first blow in his invasion of Ukraine. On today’s show, two very experienced and highly credentialed international relations experts compare and contrast these two crises: Hunter Marston, who speaks to the situation in Myanmar, and Emily Channell-Justice, who addresses the Russian invasion of Ukraine.As neither Ukraine nor Russia are signatories to the International Criminal Court, Emily notes that it is up to the ICC to pursue its own charges. In Myanmar, Hunter explains that it is unlikely that the junta will own up to its genocide charge; he adds that the NUG might possibly cooperate with any investigation. Neither Russia, Ukraine, nor Myanmar have signed on to the Rome Statue of the International Criminal Court, which defines genocide and other crimes against humanity.In terms of international organizations, Ukraine is neither a member of the European Union nor NATO, although both were immediately supportive following the Russian invasion. As for the situation in Myanmar, Hunter references the European dependence on Russian gas, saying, “I don't think any country is dependent on Myanmar's exports or its resources. But that hasn't stopped [ASEAN] from in part protecting the Myanmar military.”Another parallel between the two conflicts is the question of negotiations. Hunter feels the military does not intend to engage in any real, constructive dialog that brings with it the possibility of losing any of their power in future elections. For her part, Emily similarly sees little reason to trust any promises made by Putin.In terms of the international response to the respective conflicts, Emily points to the outpouring of support that has come in the way of popular support, funds, weapons, medical supplies, and more. This is, perhaps, the most jarring point of difference when contrasting the situations in the two countries. Hunter explains, “The international community, for better or worse, has not taken sides to support either the Myanmar military or the PDFs or the ethnic armed groups across the country.”

14 Huhti 20222h