Bonus: I’ll Gav What She’s Gavin

California Governor Gavin Newsom, presumably as a precursor to a run for the presidency, has been getting attention for a very Trump-influenced style of, uh, fighting back against Donald Trump. Is this where American politics is headed? Does it have to be? Guest: Ben Mathis-Lilley, Slate senior writer. This episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock exclusive episodes of What Next —you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices