Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change10 Syys 2025

Malcolm Turnbull: Clean Energy Culture Wars and The Race To Build More Storage | Ep 222

What happens when cheap solar flips the script on climate sceptics? Can pumped hydro really deliver the long-duration storage we need? And is “hope” a dangerous comforter in the race to net zero?

In this season opener of Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with Malcolm Turnbull — former Prime Minister of Australia, lawyer, statesman, energy investor, and climate champion. From leading Australia through fierce political battles over climate policy to now spearheading renewable projects through Turnbull Renewables, he offers a rare insider’s perspective on the global clean energy transition.

Turnbull and Liebreich explore the clash between optimism and realism in climate action: why cheap solar is reshaping politics, the promise and pitfalls of green hydrogen, and whether pumped hydro could be the long-duration storage solution the world needs. Along the way, they reflect on U.S. politics under Trump, trade negotiations without American leadership, and why “hope is not a strategy” when it comes to energy security.

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.

Links and more:

Snowy 2.0: https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/snowy-20/about/
International Hydropower Association: https://www.hydropower.org/
Green Trade or Green Trade-Off - Ep52: Tony Abbott
How Big Things (Should) Get Done - Ep128: Prof. Bent Flyvbjerg
Is The Tide Turning On Hydrogen? Ep210: Andrew Forrest
Ya Basta: https://liebreich.com/214-2/
The Spycatcher Trial: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/sep/14/malcolm-turnbull-spycatcher-lawyer-prime-minister

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Inside Europe’s Largest AI Data Centre: A Green Giant Rises | Ep235: Robert Dunn

What does it take to build Europe’s largest and most sustainable data-centre campus, from an empty plot of land to a 1.2-gigawatt giant of AI? How do you future-proof a facility when chip technology i...

26 Marras 20251h 2min

California vs Trump In The Battle For Clean Air | Ep234: Liane Randolph

What happens when the world’s most ambitious climate state runs head-on into a hostile federal government? Can California still lead the clean-energy transition while battling rising costs, wildfires ...

19 Marras 20251h 13min

⁠The €65 Billion Plan to Modernise Germany’s Grids | Ep233: Tim Meyerjürgens

What does it take to future-proof Europe’s electricity grid? How do you finance €65 billion in infrastructure without driving up consumer electricity costs? And can the permitting process be sped up t...

12 Marras 20251h 3min

Why There'll Never Be A Hydrogen Economy | Ep232: Erik Rakhou

Is green hydrogen a ‘miracle fuel’ or an expensive illusion? Can we decarbonize without it? And what happens when hydrogen hype meets hard economics?This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich debates...

5 Marras 20251h 7min

The Electrotech Revolution Will Not Be Fossilized | Ep231: Kingsmill Bond

What if the energy transition isn’t about sacrifice and belt-tightening, but abundance? Are electrified technologies ready to replace the polluting fossil fuel system we’re so reliant on? And what wil...

3 Marras 202549min

COP30: Caught Between An Electrostate and A Petrostate | Ep230: Rachel Kyte

This week on Cleaning Up, we welcome back Rachel Kyte, the UK’s Special Representative for Climate Change, for a deep dive into the shifting landscape of global climate diplomacy ahead of COP30 in Bel...

29 Loka 202559min

The US Just Sank Shipping's Big Plan for Decarbonization, What Now? | Ep229: Tristan Smith

Global shipping contributes about 3% of global greenhouse gas emissions, equivalent to the total emissions of Japan or Germany. The sector, including its contribution to climate change, is governed by...

22 Loka 20251h 16min

How To Move Away From Fossil Fuels Faster — Bryony Grills Michael on The Pragmatic Climate Reset | Ep228

This summer, Michael Liebreich wrote two essays under the title of the Pragmatic Climate Reset. The first challenged the idea that the clean energy transition has failed. And the second challenged the...

15 Loka 20251h 5min