Lex Fridman Podcast1 Loka 2025

#482 – Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

Pavel Durov is the founder and CEO of Telegram.
Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep482-sc
See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.

Transcript:
https://lexfridman.com/pavel-durov-transcript

CONTACT LEX:
Feedback – give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey
AMA – submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama
Hiring – join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring
Other – other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact

EPISODE LINKS:
Pavel’s Telegram: https://t.me/durov
Pavel’s X: https://x.com/durov
Telegram: https://telegram.org/
Telegram Contests: https://contest.com/

SPONSORS:
To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts:
Miro: Online collaborative whiteboard platform.
Go to https://miro.com/
UPLIFT Desk: Standing desks and office ergonomics.
Go to https://upliftdesk.com/lex
Fin: AI agent for customer service.
Go to https://fin.ai/lex
LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix.
Go to https://drinkLMNT.com/lex
Shopify: Sell stuff online.
Go to https://shopify.com/lex

OUTLINE:
(00:00) – Introduction
(02:46) – Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections
(11:29) – Philosophy of freedom
(14:37) – No alcohol
(22:42) – No phone
(28:38) – Discipline
(49:50) – Telegram: Lean philosophy, privacy, and geopolitics
(1:05:12) – Arrest in France
(1:21:23) – Romanian elections
(1:32:18) – Power and corruption
(1:41:50) – Intense education
(1:53:51) – Nikolai Durov
(1:58:19) – Programming and video games
(2:02:33) – VK origins & engineering
(2:19:46) – Hiring a great team
(2:29:02) – Telegram engineering & design
(2:48:04) – Encryption
(2:53:01) – Open source
(2:57:48) – Edward Snowden
(3:00:20) – Intelligence agencies
(3:01:32) – Iran and Russia government pressure
(3:04:41) – Apple
(3:11:38) – Poisoning
(3:43:53) – Money
(3:52:45) – TON
(4:02:35) – Bitcoin
(4:05:34) – Two chairs dilemma
(4:12:14) – Children
(4:23:24) – Father
(4:27:55) – Quantum immortality
(4:34:27) – Kafka

PODCAST LINKS:
– Podcast Website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast
– Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr
– Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8
– RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/
– Podcast Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4
– Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/lexclips

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