BONUS Maria Chec Explores the Divide Between Agile Leaders and Practitioners

BONUS Maria Chec Explores the Divide Between Agile Leaders and Practitioners

BONUS: Maria Chec Explores the Divide Between Agile Leaders and Practitioners

In this BONUS episode, we explore Agile leadership with Maria Chec, author and host of Agile State of Mind. Maria shares insights from her analysis of Miro's Agile Survey, revealing a concerning disconnect between how Agile leaders and practitioners experience agile methodologies. We explore the roots of this divide, discuss practical approaches to bridging the gap, and consider the implications of recent industry developments like the PMI-Agile Alliance merger. Maria offers valuable perspectives on creating truly collaborative environments where frameworks serve the teams, not the other way around.

The Disconnect Between Leaders and Practitioners

"Practitioners feel pressured to comply with agile practices when they don't seem to add value."

Maria highlights a stark divide revealed in Miro's survey of 1,200 agile practitioners and leaders. When asked if agile is living up to its original values, leaders and practitioners gave drastically different responses. For example, 69% of practitioners felt processes and tools overshadow individuals in their organizations, while only 43% of leaders shared this view. Similarly, 58% of practitioners believed documentation was prioritized over delivering final products, compared to just 39% of leaders. These disparities point to a fundamental disconnect in how agile is experienced at different organizational levels, with practitioners often feeling frameworks are imposed rather than collaboratively implemented.

When Frameworks Become the Problem

"The framework is too rigid... The framework is too complex... We have to change too much to use the framework."

The issue isn't with agile frameworks themselves but how they're applied, Maria argues. Leaders often implement frameworks like SAFe without sufficient practitioner input or adaptation to organizational context. This creates an anti-pattern of "magical thinking" where companies believe they can install off-the-shelf solutions that worked elsewhere without considering their unique circumstances. The practitioners, who must live with these frameworks daily, experience frustration when rigid implementations fail to address their actual needs. Conway's Law comes into play here – the structure imposed by leadership often doesn't align with how teams naturally need to collaborate based on the systems they're building.

The Role of Psychological Safety

"Can I really admit that something the leadership made me do is not working for me? Will I be the only one admitting it?"

This disconnect reveals deeper issues around psychological safety and trust within organizations. Many practitioners fear speaking up about framework problems, especially when they've just endured yet another organizational transformation. Maria emphasizes that without psychological safety, feedback loops break down, preventing the continuous improvement that's central to agile philosophy. Leaders must create environments where teams feel safe to provide honest feedback about what's working and what isn't, without fear of being singled out or dismissed. Without this safety, frameworks become rigid implementations rather than adaptable approaches that evolve with team needs.

Reconnecting Through Gemba Walks

"Be there where the value is created and know what's going on."

To bridge the gap between leadership vision and practitioner reality, Maria strongly recommends Gemba walks – a concept from Lean and Toyota where leaders go to where value is created. This practice helps leaders understand the actual work being done and build relationships with team members. Maria references Project Aristotle at Google, which found that trust and psychological safety are fundamental to team success. She also notes the importance of leaders articulating a meaningful mission to inspire teams, sharing her experience at a taxi-hailing app where the CEO's vision of reducing urban parking needs made her feel she was "building something for the future."

  • Leaders should regularly spend time where the actual work happens

  • Teams need to understand how their work contributes to a larger purpose

  • Open communication channels must be genuine, not just symbolic

In this segment, we refer to Management 3.0 and Managing For Happiness by Jurgen Appelo.

The PMI-Agile Alliance Merger and the Future of Agile

"Have we really found better ways? Why are Agile Alliance and PMI merging?"

The recent merger between the Project Management Institute and Agile Alliance represents a surprising development in the industry. Maria takes an optimistic view, wondering if this indicates PMI recognizing that agile is truly the way forward. She acknowledges the perception that "Agile is dead" discussions highlight a crisis in the movement, but suggests the merger might be an opportunity to influence project management with agile values. She emphasizes how AI is creating massive changes that require experimentation and adaptation – precisely what agile approaches enable. This industry shift offers agile practitioners the chance to shape how traditional and agile methodologies might complement each other in the future.

  • The merger could be seen as closing a circle or as an opportunity for cross-pollination

  • "Agile is dead" discussions reflect growing pains rather than true failure

  • Rapid technological changes with AI require more experimentation, not less

Breaking Down Silos with "Glue Roles"

"What are the 'glue roles' that you need in your organization?"

Maria introduces her concept of "glue roles" – positions that help break down silos and foster collaboration regardless of what they're called. Whether they're RTEs (Release Train Engineers), Agile Coaches, or Technical Project Managers, these roles can transform organizational effectiveness when focused on enabling teams rather than enforcing processes. She observes that nature constantly changes, yet we expect our companies to remain static. This mindset prevents the adaptation necessary for true agility. Instead, organizations need individuals who can facilitate communication, remove barriers, and help teams collaborate effectively across boundaries.

  • Focus on the function of collaboration rather than rigid role definitions

  • Adapt roles to organizational needs rather than forcing organizational change to fit frameworks

  • Use these roles to foster psychological safety and open communication

Learning Through Experimentation

"We need to experiment."

Looking toward the future, Maria emphasizes the importance of experimentation in the face of rapid technological change, particularly with AI. She notes that while tech professionals are often thought to be early adopters, AI tools like ChatGPT are being embraced across all industries. The accelerating pace of change means we can no longer plan years ahead with certainty – what we use today may be obsolete in two years. This reality makes agile approaches even more relevant, as they embrace change rather than fight it. She encourages agile practitioners to openly discuss how they use these new tools, adapting their practices rather than clinging to outdated methods.

  • The accelerating pace of change makes long-term planning increasingly difficult

  • AI is already transforming work across all industries, not just tech

  • Agile principles of adaptation and experimentation are more relevant than ever

About Maria Chec

Maria Chec is a seasoned Agile leader, ProKanban Trainer, and creator of Agile State of Mind. With over a decade of experience, she specializes in transforming teams through SAFe, OKRs, and process optimization, achieving remarkable productivity gains. Maria's mission is empowering teams to thrive through collaboration and adaptability.

You can link with Maria Chec on LinkedIn and subscribe to Maria Chec's Substack.

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The Parade of Trades—Teaching Flow in Construction | Luca Cotta Ramusino

The Parade of Trades—Teaching Flow in Construction | Luca Cotta Ramusino

Agile in Construction: The Parade of Trades—Teaching Flow in Construction, With Luca Cotta Ramusino Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Luca learned the hard way that you can't just parachute consultants into construction sites and expect Lean methods to stick. His change strategy focuses on getting buy-in from crews by showing them "what's in it for them." He starts with exercises that provide insight into how Lean ideas apply to their specific jobs, like the "Parade of Trades" simulation that demonstrates how one crew moving at twice the speed still gets stuck behind slower crews ahead. This reveals that predictability of progress matters more than speed of progress. Once teams become familiar with these concepts, Luca transitions from directive teaching to facilitating meetings and conversations, moving into the background to help teams become more sustainable in their Lean practices. In this segment, Luca refers to the movie Karate Kid from 1984, and to Theory of Constraints. Self-reflection Question: How do you ensure that change initiatives show clear value to the people who must actually implement them? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Luca Cotta Ramusino Luca is a passionate Lean advocate with roots in the construction industry, now guiding teams through agile transformation. He thrives on exploring uncharted territory, then helping clients navigate it with confidence. Ask him how Lean and agile methods can unlock your team's potential in today's fast-paced, ever-evolving work environment. You can link with Luca Cotta Ramusino on LinkedIn.

18 Kesä 13min

The Culture Shock of Applying Agile and Lean to Construction | Luca Cotta Ramusino

The Culture Shock of Applying Agile and Lean to Construction | Luca Cotta Ramusino

Agile in Construction: The Culture Shock of Applying Agile and Lean to Construction, With Luca Cotta Ramusino Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Luca experienced a culture shock when first applying Lean thinking to construction, struggling to see how methods designed for cars and assembly lines could work in one-off construction projects. However, he discovered that collaboration in construction isn't about boss relationships—it's about people coming together to deliver value from the customer's perspective. The key insight: when multiple contractors compete for their share of income, the real goal becomes finding ways to complete "the work" efficiently. Competition exists, but the ultimate focus must remain on delivering what the customer truly needs, not just what individual trades want to accomplish. In this segment, we refer to the concept of an Andon Cord, and Swarming from Lean. Featured Book of the Week: The Machine That Changed the World & The Toyota Way These two books provided Luca with his "aha!" moment in understanding Lean construction. The Toyota Way, available in both English and Italian (with additional Italian company case studies), initially created a culture shock as Luca struggled to apply automotive methods to construction's one-off projects. However, these books revealed how Lean thinking could transform construction through visual management to surface problems quickly and swarming practices to fix issues faster. The books taught him that Lean principles transcend industries when properly adapted to different contexts. The Machine That Changed The World, by Womack, Jones, and Roos. Self-reflection Question: What industry practices have you dismissed too quickly without considering how they might adapt to your unique context? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Luca Cotta Ramusino Luca is a passionate Lean advocate with roots in the construction industry, now guiding teams through agile transformation. He thrives on exploring uncharted territory, then helping clients navigate it with confidence. Ask him how Lean and agile methods can unlock your team's potential in today's fast-paced, ever-evolving work environment. You can link with Luca Cotta Ramusino on LinkedIn.

17 Kesä 18min

Tackling the Specialist-silo Problem in Agile Construction | Luca Cotta Ramusino

Tackling the Specialist-silo Problem in Agile Construction | Luca Cotta Ramusino

Agile in Construction: Tackling the Specialist-silo Problem in Construction With Luca Cotta Ramusino Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Luca shares a critical insight from his 20+ years in construction: crews often obsess about the wrong problem. While everyone knows a drywall crew can hang drywall, the real challenge isn't about individual abilities—it's about having work ready to perform. Construction sites are messy, crowded environments where multiple trades work simultaneously, not in splendid isolation. Luca emphasizes that completing work depends not just on your crew's skills, but on having the area prepared and ready for your specific trade. He explains how he gains buy-in from tradespeople by showing them "what's in it for them" and helping them understand the difference between how they think they're working versus what's actually happening on site. Self-reflection Question: How often do you focus on your team's capabilities while overlooking whether the work is actually ready for them to execute? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Luca Cotta Ramusino Luca is a passionate Lean advocate with roots in the construction industry, now guiding teams through agile transformation. He thrives on exploring uncharted territory, then helping clients navigate it with confidence. Ask him how Lean and agile methods can unlock your team's potential in today's fast-paced, ever-evolving work environment. You can link with Luca Cotta Ramusino on LinkedIn.

16 Kesä 15min

The Ghost Product Owner vs. The Storytelling Master | Stuart Tipples

The Ghost Product Owner vs. The Storytelling Master | Stuart Tipples

Stuart Tipples: The Ghost Product Owner vs. The Storytelling Master Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: The Storytelling Master Stuart describes an exceptional Product Owner who worked with an API team on what could have been a dry, unsexy product. This PO excelled by maintaining clear availability through established office hours, showing up consistently for the team, and avoiding micromanagement. The standout quality was their ability to tell compelling stories that created clarity and got the team onboard with the vision. Through storytelling, this PO helped the team communicate the value of their work, transforming a potentially mundane product into something meaningful and engaging for both the team and stakeholders. The Bad Product Owner: The Ghost with the Most Stuart encountered a problematic Product Owner working with a customer-portal team dealing with edge cases, legacy systems, and messy code. This PO earned the nickname "The Ghost with the Most" because they were never available when needed. They would miss sprint planning sessions, delay or skip backlog refinement entirely, and leave team members to fill the gap while juggling their own responsibilities. Stuart learned to address this directly by outlining how the PO's behavior affected the team and delivery, asking "Can I help you?" The PO initially reacted defensively but eventually admitted they weren't happy in the role. Self-reflection Question: How effectively does your Product Owner use storytelling to create clarity and help the team understand the value of their work? [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025 Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories. 🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders. 💡 Learn practical strategies for impact. 🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator Check Full Program [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Stuart Tipples Stuart is an Agilista, a coach, Scrum Master, agile delivery. A husband, Dog Dad, and as Star Wars nerd. Positive disruptor. Passionate about helping teams and individuals build and ship awesome products to their customers. Stuart also blogs at www.yourebelscrum.com You can link with Stuart Tipples on LinkedIn.

13 Kesä 17min

Happy Teams Embrace Obstacles—Building Psychological Safety Through Retrospectives | Stuart Tipples

Happy Teams Embrace Obstacles—Building Psychological Safety Through Retrospectives | Stuart Tipples

Stuart Tipples: Defining Scrum Master Success and the 4L's Retrospective Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Stuart redefines success for Scrum Masters, moving beyond organized JIRA boards and well-structured stories to focus on team dynamics and behavior. True success means seeing healthy conflict that leads to insight, having transparent priorities, and watching teams call out their own behavior through self-checking mechanisms. Stuart emphasizes that happy teams aren't just content - they're energized by embracing obstacles and challenges. He stresses the importance of reinforcing great behaviors when you see them, creating an environment where teams can thrive independently. Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: 4L's The 4L's retrospective format is Stuart's favorite because it strikes the perfect balance between warmth and honest feedback. The format covers four areas: Liked (appreciation), Learned (growth opportunities), Lacked (identifying gaps), and Longed for (dreaming big). This structure prevents people from freezing up while uncovering golden moments and building psychological safety. As a bonus, the format allows facilitators to bring fun elements and themes, making retrospectives more engaging while maintaining their effectiveness in driving team improvement. Self-reflection Question: Does your team demonstrate healthy conflict that leads to insight, or are disagreements avoided and issues left unresolved? [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025 Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories. 🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders. 💡 Learn practical strategies for impact. 🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator Check Full Program [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Stuart Tipples Stuart is an Agilista, a coach, Scrum Master, agile delivery. A husband, Dog Dad, and as Star Wars nerd. Positive disruptor. Passionate about helping teams and individuals build and ship awesome products to their customers. Stuart also blogs at www.yourebelscrum.com You can link with Stuart Tipples on LinkedIn.

12 Kesä 14min

Leading Change Without Hierarchical Power | Stuart Tipples

Leading Change Without Hierarchical Power | Stuart Tipples

Stuart Tipples: Beyond Hierarchy—Influencing Agile Adoption Through Setting the Example and Community Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Stuart explores the challenging aspect of leading change as a Scrum Master without hierarchical authority. He shares his experience as a chapter lead where he built a community of practice and recruited new Scrum Masters to become change agents. The breakthrough came when he convinced director-level leaders to run their own quarterly retrospectives, creating a powerful example for teams throughout the organization. Stuart emphasizes that change spreads organically - when you change your team, it becomes contagious. His approach involved showing up daily as a change agent, understanding the difference between sponsors and change agents, and initially facilitating leadership retrospectives to demonstrate proper technique. Self-reflection Question: How can you leverage community building and lead by example to create lasting organizational change without relying on formal authority? [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025 Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories. 🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders. 💡 Learn practical strategies for impact. 🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator Check Full Program [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Stuart Tipples Stuart is an Agilista, a coach, Scrum Master, agile delivery. A husband, Dog Dad, and as Star Wars nerd. Positive disruptor. Passionate about helping teams and individuals build and ship awesome products to their customers. Stuart also blogs at www.yourebelscrum.com You can link with Stuart Tipples on LinkedIn.

11 Kesä 15min

Trust-Based Leadership and Team Implosion | Stuart Tipples

Trust-Based Leadership and Team Implosion | Stuart Tipples

Stuart Tipples: Silent Teams, Explosive Outcomes—Learning to Normalize Disagreement Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Stuart tells the story of a team he was brought in to coach that appeared functional on the surface but was struggling beneath. Despite being behind on critical work, the team maintained a facade of happiness while abandoning retrospectives and falling into hero culture patterns. The team had developed "toxic positivity" where members stayed silent about real issues, creating an environment without psychological safety. When problems finally surfaced, the team exploded into unpleasant disagreements. Stuart's key learning: teams usually stay silent until it's too late, making it crucial to foster psychological safety by normalizing disagreement and creating space for honest dialogue. Self-reflection Question: Is your team comfortable with healthy disagreement, or are you maintaining a facade of toxic positivity that prevents real issues from being addressed? Featured Book of the Week: Trust Based Leadership by Mike Ettore Trust Based Leadership by Mike Ettore stands out because it's devoid of corporate fluff and delivers a clear message from a former marine turned executive. Stuart recommends it because it focuses on the fundamental truth that if you don't build trust, you're just managing compliance. The book emphasizes leading with consistency, clarity, and courage, and encourages leaders not to wait for permission to make positive changes. It's a practical guide that moves beyond typical corporate leadership advice to address real-world leadership challenges. [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025 Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories. 🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders. 💡 Learn practical strategies for impact. 🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator Check Full Program [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Stuart Tipples Stuart is an Agilista, a coach, Scrum Master, agile delivery. A husband, Dog Dad, and as Star Wars nerd. Positive disruptor. Passionate about helping teams and individuals build and ship awesome products to their customers. Stuart also blogs at www.yourebelscrum.com You can link with Stuart Tipples on LinkedIn.

10 Kesä 17min

Breaking Free from Zombie Scrum | Stuart Tipples

Breaking Free from Zombie Scrum | Stuart Tipples

Stuart Tipples: From Zombie Scrum to Agile Thinking—Learning from a Failed Transformation Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Stuart shares a powerful story about joining a team that appeared to be thriving with Scrum ceremonies in place, only to discover they were performing "zombie scrum" - going through the motions without embracing agile thinking. The team functioned as a feature factory, never questioning requirements or truly collaborating. Stuart learned that agile isn't about what you do, but how you and the team think. He emphasizes that frameworks are just guardrails; the real focus must be on coaching people in agile values and principles. His key insight: know the rules before you break them, and remember that no amount of ceremony can rescue a team that lacks the agile mindset. Self-reflection Question: Are your team's agile ceremonies creating real value and fostering collaboration, or are you simply going through the motions of "performative theatre"? [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025 Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories. 🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders. 💡 Learn practical strategies for impact. 🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator Check Full Program [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Stuart Tipples Stuart is an Agilista, a coach, Scrum Master, agile delivery. A husband, Dog Dad, and as Star Wars nerd. Positive disruptor. Passionate about helping teams and individuals build and ship awesome products to their customers. Stuart also blogs at www.yourebelscrum.com You can link with Stuart Tipples on LinkedIn.

9 Kesä 15min

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