Follow-Up: Chad Andrews — The Pros and Cons of Living on the Road to Climb, and Having a Healthier Relationship with Money (Teaser)

Justin Brown is the founder of Rhino Skin Solutions, a company that provides high-performance skincare products for rock climbers. We talked about best practices for skincare, tips for dialing skin for different rock types, how to grow a business while keeping things simple, and the connection between greatness and insanity.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/justin-brown  Nuggets:  2:23 – The COVID pivot, hand sanitizer, and the restaurant hustle  5:48 – Whole Foods, the Rhino growth trajectory, and growing to make a better product  9:50 – How to fix product that has separated   11:30 – Hand Sanitizer for greasy hands and dirty climbers  13:52 – Best practices for healing dry skin  17:24 – Dry/Performance plus Spit for dry and pliable skin, removing sweating as a factor, and different skin for different rock types  19:32 – How to use Rhino Spit   20:39 – Justin’s skincare routine leading up to a climbing trip  24:02 – Combining using Performance and Repair, and best practice for antiperspirant use   26:28 – Training your brain to sweat less and taking a break from using products once a month  30:35 – Tegaderm and Hypafix for splits and gobies  34:34 – Better climbing tapes  36:48 – Filing old shoe rubber, shoe cleaning products, and OXY Pads  41:48 – The early days of Rhino, and why Justin   46:21 – A simple business model and growing organically  49:08 – Growing vs. profitability, putting systems in place, not wanting cogs, and the label machine  54:51 – Work-life balance, getting an employee, and freeing up time  58:40 – Getting hurt climbing, starting MMA, getting in the best shape of his life, and the heart monitor story  1:03:58 – Training for MMA and carryover to rock climbing  1:06:21 – Justin’s standing in jiu-jitsu and converting belt rankings to the Yosemite Decimal System  1:08:05 – Mixing MMA and climbing, a pesky wrist injury, and climbing because it’s fun  1:10:56 – Greatness and insanity, and different limiters on crazy  1:12:27 – Steven’s thoughts on limiters, how limiters shift, and waking up early to hangboard  1:14:38 – Exceeding climbing goals, the gratification of improving at something new, and the myth of discipline  1:17:06 – How each route at Smith leads to the next, and progressing through the 5.13s  1:21:12 – Justin’s approach to climbing ‘Badman’ (his first 5.14), and dealing with shoulder impingement  1:25:25 – Carryover from jiu-jitsu to rock climbing  1:28:49 – Carryover from rock climbing to jiu-jitsu, projecting sequences, and foot matches  1:32:18 – Climbing 5.14 again, goal routes, and climbing the hardest route from the year you were born  1:35:33 – Justin’s (secret) Shuteye Ridge trip  1:37:29 – Gratitude for family and his sister’s illness  1:40:48 – My experience with van life during COVID-19, being in stasis, why Justin craves going out to eat, and restaurant energy  1:46:14 – Rye sourdough mango pancakes  1:47:02 – High-4 (Justin’s new company for pet care)  1:50:20 – New Rhino products (coming soon)  1:52:23 – Where to connect with Rhino for skincare questions  1:53:10 – One last story

15 Kesä 20201h 55min

Ethan Pringle is one of the best all-around rock climbers in the world. We talked about practice vs. training, lessons learned from 50 days projecting ‘The Nest’, taking care of his dad and his experience with chronic grief, the gift of heartbreak, discovering a new depth of love, projecting highballs, and the coolest rock climbing move he has ever done.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/ethan-pringle  Nuggets:  2:22 – The Pistol Squat challenge  5:58 – Practice vs training, and feeling plateaued in strength  9:18 – Improving strategy for projecting, getting really good at making climbs easier, and admiring climbers who try 100% every time they pull on the wall  12:24 – Wanting to flow vs. trying as hard as possible, learning to climb efficiently, and the game of sport climbing  16:14 – 50 days on ‘The Nest’  24:38 – Psychological vs. physical limitations on The Nest, holding on to belief, and the decision to send  27:23 – Ethan’s main takeaway from ‘The Nest’: “Crappy days are totally fine and totally normal.”  29:15 – Trying different beta, lightbulb moments, ‘El Bon Combat’, and “master beta”  33:59 – ‘Kintsugi’, the ninja-toe-catch, and the coolest rock climbing move Ethan has ever done  38:47 – His dad’s stroke, finding him on the floor, life’s pivotal moments, caregiving, and Michael Peña  49:39 – Lessons from grief, heartbreak as a gift, and a new depth of love  59:30 – Compassion, acceptance, growth  1:01:05 – Self-compassion, the ‘La Reina Mora’ story, and the debilitating combo of emotional baggage and bad beta  1:07:47 – Overextending and creating boundaries  1:13:15 – Knowing yourself and communicating boundaries  1:16:30 – Why the word “depression” doesn’t really resonate with Ethan, his own brand of internal darkness, and becoming more at peace with himself  1:21:14 – Seeing a grief counselor and why Ethan is a proponent of therapy  1:23:29 – 10-minute sits, mindfulness meditation, and Ethan’s experience and takeaways from a 10-day vipassana course  1:35:35 – Doing the second ascent of Jason Kehl’s ‘Evilution’, and why highball bouldering is such an amazing type of climbing  1:39:47 – Ethan’s highball projects in Yosemite  1:42:18 – Ethan’s approach to highballs and the effect of pulling the rope   1:44:27 – The “Brown Point”  1:46:26 – Plans for Yosemite in the Fall  1:47:12 – Dreams of finding all-natural 5.14+ or 5.15 projects  1:51:50 – Ethan’s dream van  1:54:55 – Gratitude  1:56:09 – Hugs  1:56:37 – Ethan’s Instagram and plans for a new website  1:57:32 – The gift of vulnerability, plans for a round 2, and reversing interview roles

8 Kesä 20202h 1min

Chad Andrews is the maker of the Clipping Chains blog—a resource to help climbers navigate personal finance and move towards financial independence. We talked about reaching retirement at age 35, simple steps to reduce your cost of living, why financial strength equals freedom, the joy of building a craft, and pursuing your best life.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/chad-andrews  Nuggets:  3:03 – ‘Snickers’ the stealthy food thief  7:34 – Chad’s early career in Houston, staring climbing, moving to the front range, and becoming interested in the financial independence movement  14:59 – The F.I.R.E. movement (Financially Independence Retire Early) and Chad’s path to financial independence  16:09 – Why Chad would never call himself retired, and why he thinks work is a fundamental aspect of happiness  17:10 – The Clipping Chains blog and sharing personal finance information with climbers  18:51 – Overview of the financial independence concept (maximize savings rate, and invest in a passive index fund)  24:31 – Chad and his wife’s income, teachers, and why the financial independence movement isn’t just for those with a high income   26:39 – Tracking spending using an app or spreadsheet  31:19 – The big three: housing, transportation, and food  33:51 – Chad’s passion for food, cutting back out dining out, rediscovering cooking, and learning new skills  36:32 – Facing discomfort, Chuck and Maggie Odette, the “year of austerity”, and paying less for the same experience  38:44 – Why financial strength is a sliding scale, and the freedom of having a little extra money saved  43:52 – Chad’s climbing trip to Ceuse during the “year of austerity”  45:39 – Pareto principle (80/20), and why Chad doesn’t feel like he and his wife had to sacrifice much to reach their financial goals  48:56 – How having a few months of living expenses saved up can give you the freedom to tinker and try new things  50:53 – The first two steps that everyone should take toward financial strength  56:23 – Scheduling your day, habits, and systems  1:01:52 – Tracking net worth as a measure of progress  1:05:13 – Housing as the #1 expense, and tips for reducing housing cost  1:09:41 – Tips for renters and why buying a house isn’t necessarily as good an investment as people think  1:12:45 – Takeaways from interviews with top climbers, and embracing a non-normal life  1:19:39 – Hard work, happiness, and honing a craft  1:26:09 – Chad’s current climbing, focusing on movement and bouldering, and the benefits of filming yourself  1:32:35 – Where Chad is most excited to climb after COVID, focusing on climbs he can do in 10 tries, and the role of mega projects  1:36:05 – Retiring just before COVID, and my (Steven’s) plans for Rifle  1:38:12 – Roasted peppers, Lemoncello, and comfort food  1:44:26 – Favorite books  1:47:36 – Gratitude  1:48:25 – Clipping chains website, Instagram, Twitter

1 Kesä 20201h 52min

This is part 2 of my conversation with Mikey Schaefer. We talked about climbing as a finite resource, footwear for big walls, rope tricks, Mikey’s “fix and follow” system for team-free ascents, climbing smarter, what Mikey is grateful for, and his refreshing perspective about COVID. You can find part 1 of our conversation in episode 18.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/mikey-schaefer-part-2  Nuggets:  1:31 – Climbing ‘Moonlight Buttress’ in his 20s, 30s, and 40s  4:09 – Moonlight getting easier, wearing out climbs, being mindful of the impact we have on climbs and climbing areas, and Mikey’s advocate “rant”  10:06 – How Mikey thinks about footwear, and being smarter (as well as stronger)  16:27 – Tommy Caldwell as a one-show-size climber, and how Mikey chose his shoes for ‘ Moonlight Buttress’  18:45 – Compression socks, warmup up in socks and TC Pros, climbing in approach shoes, and developing footwork by climbing in shittier shoes  22:53 – Tinkering with systems, “It’s easier to climb smarter than it is to get stronger”, weighing gear with a gram scale, and measuring the force of different top rope systems  27:18 – “Friends don’t let friends belay”, Mikey’s “fix and follow” system, and leading in blocks  34:56 – Grateful for financial security, Mikey’s grandfather held captive, and a refreshing perspective on COVID  41:01 – Why Mikey feels content with where he’s at, plans to continue moving the spiral upward, and continuing to be a jack of all trades

25 Touko 202044min

Mikey Schaefer is a photographer, filmmaker, and an all-around climber whose accomplishments range from dangerous first ascents in the mountains to 5.13+ big walls, 5.14 sport climbs, and V10 boulders. We talked about some of Mikey’s most meaningful first ascents, experiences on Liberty Bell, balancing risk and reward, becoming a jack of all trades, and building his pyramid.   Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/mikey-schaefer-part-1  Nuggets:  3:03 – The ‘Eggsadilla’  6:56 – Mikey’s first major FA on the South Face of Mt. Bradley (‘Little Big Man’)  14:32 – The Dancing Dihedrals feature, and the A3 rating  18:10 – Getting old/soft (joke), how Mikey’s risk profile has shifted, and balancing risk and reward  21:44 – Putting up first ascents, “Who’s experience am I doing this for?”, and Mikey’s perspective shift in putting up new routes   25:33 – Learning by making mistakes, and when to push your limits  30:22 – Preserving the experience of routes  32:53 – Liberty Bell and the arc of Mikey’s climbing progression, rope soloing, father time, and putting up the hardest big wall route in WA  45:55 – Finding the gem (‘Dark Side of Liberty’)  49:54 – Being called a sandbagger and Mikey’s thoughts on grading routes  56:31 – Mikey’s tendency to not think he’s as strong as he is, “good” vs “great” climbers, and a shifted paradigm  59:00 – Being a jack of all trades, balancing multiple disciplines, how different disciplines help each other in a spiral, and climbing Cerro Torre  1:04:17 – The ‘Why’ behind Mikey being a jack of all trades in climbing, his influences and personality, and being the swiss army knife on productions  1:08:10 – Why Mikey doesn’t set long-term goals or make long-term plans, letting opportunities arise, and not knowing what’s next with COVID  1:13:18 – Varied approaches between different climbers, “There’s no recipe for success”, finding clues, and making the most of the cards you’re dealt  1:17:35 – Adding the training and bouldering bricks to the pyramid  1:19:03 – How Mikey trained to climb his first 5.14, repeaters using the Beastmaker App, weighted pull-ups, and muscle-ups  1:33:20 – Using video recordings as a tool, and front levers with Alex Honnold  1:37:13 – Being a shorter male climber (5’3”), different strength requirements for men and women, and an interesting comparison between Mikey and SJ  1:44:20 – The main benefits of bouldering and training the “try hard muscle”

18 Touko 20201h 53min

Drew Ruana is a 20-year-old boulderer, sport climber, and competition climber who is quickly becoming one of the best rock climbers in the world. We talked about climbing ‘Sleepwalker’ (his first V16), the significance of skin and conditions and tactics for optimizing them, his current training philosophy, transitioning from competitions to outdoor climbing, and his career and climbing goals.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/drew-ruana  Nuggets:  3:14 – Rest day during quarantine, Game of Thrones   4:57 – Bishop in February, ‘Goldfish Trombone’, and the worst skin injury Drew has ever had  6:55 – The Milwaukee fan, a game of 0.1 percents, and the importance of skin and conditions  10:13 – Night sessions and Drew’s light setup  11:02 – Drew’s chalk bucket of skin products  12:32 – Dry Spray, Climb Skin, and accepting bad skin  13:28 – Drew’s V15 rampage, a day in the life while projecting ‘Sleepwalker’, Drew’s best two days of climbing, and the sending drug  18:01 – Why Drew doesn’t warm up on other boulders  19:05 – Drew’s warmup routine  20:38 – How Drew thinks about working on multiple projects at a time vs focusing on one  21:58 – ‘Three Days In Joe’s’, mixing in volume, and doing V14 in a few minutes  23:39 – Griffin Whiteside, and Mike & Ikes as rocket fuel  25:36 – Drew’s training philosophy and workout  29:32 – Drew’s favorite rings exercises  31:17 – A day and B day, and “all the strength comes from recovery”  33:00 – The importance of nutrition and sleep, Drew’s protein intake (1-1.2 grams per lb bodyweight), and PhysiVantage protein powder  35:21 – Why Drew spent two years focusing more on weight lifting than climbing  38:18 – Climbing at Smith Rock at age 3, climbing ‘Dancer’, and Drew’s first set of quick draws  40:26 – Why Drew never felt external sources of pressure, competing as a kid, and the frustration of being too short for competition boulders  45:16 – Sticking it to the man, coach Tyson, and learning to climb tall  48:33 – Shifting motivation from comps to outdoor climbing  50:37 – Olympic qualifiers, world championships, frustrating comp results, and the validation of a successful outdoor season  1:02:39 – FA of ‘Pegasus’  1:06:10 – FA of ‘Assassin’  1:12:04 – Climbing at Smith and how that made Drew the climber he is today  1:13:26 – 5.15 projects at Smith  1:15:02 – “We’ll see where climbing takes me.”  1:16:15 – Psyche for bouldering, School of Mines, and dreams of alpine blocks  1:18:12 – Drew’s career plans, and wanting to give more back to the world than just climbing  1:20:32 – Why Drew thinks Salt Lake City is the best scene for hard training in the country  1:22:55 – A lot to be grateful for  1:25:26 – Instagram and Facebook, getting logged out of Messenger, and “You can always try harder.”  1:28:29 – BONUS: Drew’s campusing routine

11 Touko 20201h 34min

Tara Kerzhner is an award-winning photographer, cinematographer, and accomplished rock climber. We talked about being creative while stuck at home, the importance of shooting what you love, balancing her work with art and climbing, becoming a more powerful climber, and telling stories through film.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/tara-kerzhner  Nuggets:  2:06 – Using the podcast to hangout out with friends  2:51 – Cactuses  5:50 – Working from home, “the snack loop”, and Tara’s favorite tea  11:33 – Working in restaurants, learning to manage money, not having mentors, and a sheltered upbringing  15:21 – Learning to believe in herself, “garbage collecting”, and increasing your percentage of good photos  17:37 – “Shoot what you love”, being grounded for 6 months, and taking risks  19:29 – Some of Tara’s favorite photos and what made them memorable  23:51 – Learning about storytelling and film making, and why Tara feels like she hasn’t made her best film yet  25:16 – Tara’s new film camera  26:50 – Tara’s photo tick list, shooting “new” angles, and Jim Thornburg  29:59 – Balancing working with art and climbing, sending ‘Vesper’, and going in and out of shape  34:24 – Why Tara is considering doing more strength training for photo/video work  38:22 – “Un-Smithing” herself, seeking out more powerful climbs, and ‘Don’t Call Me Dude’  44:26 – Why grades “don’t really make sense”  47:06 – Tara’s goal routes at Ceuse, trying ‘Sprayathon’, and the irrelevance of grades  50:38 – ‘To Bolt’, and why climbing it would be such a meaningful route for Tara  53:33 – Alex Honnold’s free solo big wall tick list  55:02 – Multipitch sport climbing, wanting to go climb ‘Logical Progression’, and why multi-pitch trad climbing isn’t always type 1 or 2 fun  57:55 – Why free climbing El Cap isn’t a current goal  58:53 – Cats  1:00:08 – House cat —> ocelot  1:01:39 – What Tara feels especially grateful for  1:04:25 – Sladies 2, the ethics of what we choose to do right now (during COVID), and why Tara isn’t planning any trips right now  1:06:40 – Why Tara is excited to explore more editorial/journalistic photo and video work in the future, shooting in Fiji, and photos vs videos  1:08:50 – Tara’s website, Instagram, and why she prefers email when responding to people  1:10:32 – Climbing on the home wall, why 45 degrees might be the hardest angle in rock climbing, and “it’s all about body positions”  1:12:13 – Wrap up, why Tara doesn’t like some of her earliest films, and “it’s good to be up on the wall”

4 Touko 20201h 14min

Katie Lambert is an elite rock climber in just about every discipline of the sport. She is also a contributing author for Climbing Magazine, owns a business, and has a master’s in nutrition. We talked about the film Pretty Strong, her training and how she balances the many disciplines of climbing, and nutrition recommendations for climbers.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/katie-lambert  Nuggets:  2:15 – Pretty Strong  4:19 – ‘Father Time’ breakdown, blood blister, dropping the tape, and deciding to go into support mode  9:45 – “A big part of climbing is failing.”  10:49 – What Katie learned from climbing with Nina, and vice versa   13:16 – Deadlifting to fix low back pain, the Berto challenge, pulling 235 lbs, and how deadlifting has helped her climbing  18:11 – Iron Dragons  19:17 – Pinch training and hangboarding  24:36 – Sunday Funday  25:08 – Training power for a trip to the Red, and bouldering circuits (inside & outside)  26:57 – Campusing exercises, the importance of focusing on speed when training power, and campusing endurance  28:24 – The routes Katie was training for at the time  29:26 – Being a multi-discipline athlete, and how Katie thinks about structuring her climbing/training year  32:42 – Why Katie prefers the free-in-a-day style of big wall climbing  34:25 – Linking up ’The Rostrum’ and ‘Astroman’, Katie’s “little suffer bunny”, and feeling fit from The Hulk  36:39 – Goals for future linkups and quick ascents and plans to go back to ‘Father Time’  39:52 – Katie’s go-to climbing shoes  40:58 – “I know who I am and I know what I’m doing.”  44:10 – Why Katie recommends that newer climbers (less than 5 years) just climb a lot in a variety of styles instead of focusing on training  46:24 – How learning offwidth techniques has helped Katie with tufa climbing  48:07 – The one kind of training Katie wishes she had started doing earlier and would recommend for climbers  48:54 – Katie’s three go-to strength exercises, and fingerboarding for healthy fingers  50:59 – Past ankle and finger injuries, why Katie avoids climbing in the cold, and being clammy and cold  53:54 – Katie’s favorite Rhino Skin Solutions products and how she uses them  54:51 – Rehab ideas for elbow tendonitis and finger injuries, and why just taking time off isn’t necessarily the best rehab strategy  1:00:18 – What Katie wishes she knew when she was age 20  1:01:47 – Same question for age 30, noticing a trend of tendon injuries climbing in the cold, my own experience with a finger injury  1:03:38 – How dehydration plays a role in finger injuries, electrolytes, and Katie’s favorite hydration cocktail for cold days  1:04:19 – Masters in nutrition, Bishop Cowork, writing, and nutrition coaching  1:05:30 – Two key nutrition tips/takeaways for climbers, recommended intake of water per day (1/2 fluid ounce per lb of bodyweight minimum), and climbers as sugar burners  1:07:51 – How Katie eats in a day  1:10:10 – Eating red meat, why Katie is into local and sustainable food and why she feels so lucky being in Bishop, Polyphase Farm, and the challenges of feeding a growing population  1:13:52 – Some of the side effects of a crappy diet, why diet is important (even if you look fit), and some of Katie’s recommendations  1:17:29 – Katie’s recommendations for those that want to stick to a vegetarian or vegan diet  1:18:12 – Nuts, and why Katie recommends eating them raw/soaked, and why she recommends avoiding peanuts and processed nuts and nut butters  1:20:00 – Katie’s recommendation for daily protein intake (1 gram per lb of bodyweight—it’s ok to start with 75% of that)  1:22:54 – Writing, why Katie is stopping her column at Climbing Magazine, and working on a cookbook  1:24:24 – Founding and running Sacred Rok  1:26:50 – Being sick for 24 days, gratitude for health, and “it’s a man thing” (being pathetic when we get sick)  1:28:26 – Katie’s upcoming trip to the Red  1:29:09 – Melt Down  1:31:22 – Being a lifer, why Katie loves Bishop, and moving to France if Trump wins the election  1:33:20 – V11 as a goal  1:33:57 – “We’re really lucky to climb.”

27 Huhti 20201h 35min