Hybrid Pricing and Pricing with AI with Steven Forth
Impact Pricing17 Huhti 2023

Hybrid Pricing and Pricing with AI with Steven Forth

Steven Forth is Ibbaka's Co-Founder, CEO, and Partner. Ibbaka is a strategic pricing advisory firm. He was CEO of LeveragePoint Innovations Inc., a SaaS business designed to help companies create and capture value. Steven is what I consider one of the great pricing thinkers in our industry.

In this episode, Steven enlightens us about hybrid pricing models and explains why we should adopt it. He also shares why pricing people need to change the way they see AI along with the work they do in pricing.

Why you have to check out today's podcast:

  • Understand one of the unstated rules of pricing that talks about pricing power along with insights into future risk
  • Find out how artificial intelligence (AI) can help address concerns regarding the connection between pricing and predictability, and why pricing people should change how they see AI in line with pricing
  • Discover the reason on why most of us need to adopt hybrid pricing models and why the two pricing metrics in that should be independent of each other

"Most of us need to adopt hybrid pricing models, and the two pricing metrics should be independent of each other. If the two pricing metrics track each other closely, why bother having a hybrid pricing model? You need two metrics that are relatively independent of each other, and that will give you the flexibility you need to respond in a difficult economic environment."

– Steven Forth

Topics Covered:

00:42 – Steven's insights on what a hybrid pricing model looks like

02:30 – Issues on pricing model that applies credits/tokens to usage

04:44 – Predictability; whoever has the best insight into future risk has the greatest pricing power

09:37 – Pricing people vs. the recent trend: AI and how it sets prices

12:02 – The Achilles heel of value-based pricing, and the hybrid pricing practice in companies

18:09 – What real value-based pricing is about

20:52 – An optimal pricing model if you want to combine two metrics

24:31 – Confused buyers don't buy and renew

27:18 – Three reasons why calculators don't expose their logic

28:42 – Steven's pricing advice

29:42 – Connect with Steven

Key Takeaways:

"If you have enough data, you can actually get pretty good at predicting future usage." – Steven Forth

"One of the unstated rules of pricing is that whoever has the best insight into future risk has the greatest pricing power. The better we get at prediction, the more accurate we can get at pricing, and the question then becomes, who has the data to make those predictions? And I think in many cases, it's actually the vendor who has better access to data." – Steven Forth

"This whole question of predictability and pricing is going to be a key question for pricing over the next three to five years, and the artificial intelligences are going to help us to answer that question much better than we've ever been able to answer it before." – Steven Forth

"If you're optimizing value for the customer, you're optimizing the amount that they're willing to pay you, so if you just do it to optimize revenue, you'll end up shooting yourself in the foot because you'll trigger that negative feedback loop." – Steven Forth

Connect with Steven Forth:

Connect with Mark Stiving:

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Blogcast: Perfect Pricing Is Impossible (and That's OK)

Blogcast: Perfect Pricing Is Impossible (and That's OK)

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on November 18, 2024, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/perfect-pricing-is-impossible-and-thats-ok/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

24 Tammi 4min

Rebates as a Strategic Tool in Pricing: Transforming Customer Behavior and Driving Profitability with Mark Gilham

Rebates as a Strategic Tool in Pricing: Transforming Customer Behavior and Driving Profitability with Mark Gilham

Mark Gilham is an experienced senior executive with a proven track record in finance, strategy, and consulting. He brings deep expertise in driving commercial success, improving operational efficiencies, and influencing industry best practices. In this episode, Mark shares the transformative power of rebates as tools for driving both customer behavior and operational efficiency, rather than just cost-cutting mechanisms. He highlights the importance of designing rebates that align with business goals, such as incentivizing desirable customer actions, improving operational processes, and fostering long-term loyalty. Why you have to check out today's podcast: Learn how rebates can go beyond simple cost-cutting to solve operational challenges, enhance customer loyalty, and drive profitability for your business. Gain insights into how rebates can incentivize customer behaviors that benefit both parties, creating a more collaborative and sustainable business relationship. Discover innovative ways to use rebates to optimize your operations, create efficiencies, and stronger partnerships with customers. "Get out from behind your desk; get away from the spreadsheet and understand your business. Understand what makes your business tick." - Mark Gilham Topics Covered: 01:11 - How he transitioned from accountancy to pricing 02:24 - Explaining why accountants' focus on cost-plus pricing 03:52 - Highlighting how understanding pricing enables finance professionals to interpret data more effectively and influence business outcomes 05:35 - Strategic role of rebates in B2B, their challenges, and how they differ from traditional incentives and discounts 08:18 - Importance of structuring rebates and balancing discounts and rebates in B2B to maintain margins 11:11 - Dynamics of incentivizing end consumers versus channel partners 14:59 - Optimizing rebate structures 20:40 - Sharing how rebates can incentivize operational efficiency 25:55 - Advocating for pricing teams to lead rebate strategies to create lasting customer relationships and reduce reliance on discounting 28:11 - Highlighting the potential of rebates to address operational inefficiencies Key Takeaways: "Immature pricing practices tend to be that cost-plus. And when I say immature, it's not that it's bad, it's just they don't know what good looks like or what's better." - Mark Gilham "A good rebate is a rebate that a manufacturer or supplier wants to pay out." - Mark Gilham "I believe pricing have the tools and the skillset to, and it should be on the sell side, to equip salespeople to go out, not to win an order, but to kind of win a relationship. And make that relationship sticky so that discounting actually is not, it's always going to be important, but hopefully you can take a little bit of that pressure off the table." - Mark Gilham "If you want a better deal from your supplier, think about all the things you could do to make their life easier and ask them, 'What's that worth to you?' And that's a far better way of getting a bit of extra money out of the contract than just saying, 'I want my product for less.'" - Mark Gilham People/Resources Mentioned: Enable: https://www.enable.com Connect with Mark Gilham: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markgilham/ Email: mark.gilham@enable.com Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

20 Tammi 30min

Blogcast: You Influence Your Customers' Willingness to Pay

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This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on November 11, 2024, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/you-influence-your-customers-willingness-to-pay/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

17 Tammi 3min

The Secret to Confidently Raising Your Prices Without the Backlash with Vance Morris

The Secret to Confidently Raising Your Prices Without the Backlash with Vance Morris

Vance Morris is a former Disney Leader turned entrepreneur, coach, speaker and author. He helps businesses deliver extraordinary customer experiences through workshops, boot camps, and training at Disney. In this episode, Vance shares practical strategies for implementing premium pricing by presenting options and building value through transparency and trust. He emphasizes the importance of creating emotional connections with customers to enhance loyalty and retention, even in B2B environments. Additionally, he advocates for confident implementation of price increases, highlighting that many pricing challenges stem from business owners' mindset rather than market resistance. Why you have to check out today's podcast: Learn how to confidently set premium prices and create packages that differentiate your business from competitors. Discover how emotional connections, rather than just logic, can drive customer loyalty and enhance sales, even in B2B settings. Get tips on overcoming common pricing hurdles and improving customer retention through simple yet effective strategies. "People have enough information, they don't have enough implementation; just go do it. You could go out right now, raise your prices 10% and nobody's going to bat an eyelash." - Vance Morris Topics Covered: 01:45 - How he found himself in pricing 02:31 - Sustaining a cycle of value and profitability as inspired by Disney's pricing strategies 05:20 - How he justifies premium pricing in his upholstery cleaning business 08:46 - Demonstrating expertise and showcasing value 11:32 - Emphasizing the value of positioning as a premium service rather than competing on being the second cheapest 13:00 - Maintaining pricing integrity 14:21 - Adapting Disney-inspired strategies to differentiate your business making it incomparable to competitors 16:37 - How to differentiate your products or services, even in competitive markets like B2B software 17:57 - How to foster loyalty, enhance customer retention, and make price increases more acceptable 21:09 - Highlighting the value of small, thoughtful gestures to build a positive reputation and stand out in competition 22:42 - Offering premium pricing tiers in clear, non-salesy manner 24:57 - Vance's best pricing advice Key Takeaways: "Not so much to justify [premium pricing], as it is being able to offer a better experience, which then allows me to charge a higher price, which puts more money in my pocket." - Vance Morris "It's about creating a connection. It's people doing business with people. It's not people doing business with business and creating some kind of emotional connection with the purchasing manager, with whoever's doing the buying. And it just makes selling so much easier." - Vance Morris "When you have that connection, a price increase may not be overlooked, but is a lot more palatable than just hard excel spreadsheets flying around." - Vance Morris "There is no competitive advantage to being second cheapest; if you're not going to be the cheapest, you might as well go the other direction." - Vance Morris People/Resources Mentioned: Disney: https://www.disney.com/ Ritz-Carlton: https://www.ritzcarlton.com/ Dunkin Donuts: https://www.dunkindonuts.com/en Connect with Vance Morris: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vancemorris/ Website: https://deliverservicenow.com/ Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

13 Tammi 27min

Blogcast: The Fluid Nature of Willingness to Pay: How Context Shapes Your Pricing Strategy

Blogcast: The Fluid Nature of Willingness to Pay: How Context Shapes Your Pricing Strategy

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on November 4, 2024, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/the-fluid-nature-of-willingness-to-pay-how-context-shapes-your-pricing-strategy/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

10 Tammi 4min

Pricing Transformation: Insights on Software, Segmentation, and Change Leadership with Stephan Liozu

Pricing Transformation: Insights on Software, Segmentation, and Change Leadership with Stephan Liozu

Stephan Liozu is a business executive with deep knowledge in pricing strategy, value-based pricing, monetization, and transformations. He speaks the language of sales, pricing, finance, and the C-suite. In this episode, Stephan highlights the need to combine value-based pricing with strong change management for successful transformations. He shares practical segmentation strategies tailored to diverse business needs. Reflecting on his move into pricing software, he explores its potential and the challenges of gaining C-suite support. Why you have to check out today's podcast: Delve into the nuances of value-based pricing and its implementation and practical advice for businesses aiming to maximize profitability while addressing internal and external challenges. Learn about a methodology for effective customer segmentation, practical steps, and real-world applications for targeted strategies. Discover the critical role of change management in successfully implementing pricing strategies and have a deeper understanding of organizational dynamics and leadership in pricing transformations. "You cannot do advanced pricing without advanced change management and change leadership." - Stephan Liozu Topics Covered: 01:10 - Significance of the Chief Value Officer (CVO) title 01:58 - The complexity of defining value within companies 02:52 - Contrasting his roles as a Chief Value Officer at Thales and Zilliant 04:35 - Reflecting on the challenges and uncertain future of the pricing profession with his article on LinkedIn 06:27 - Discussing the challenges of B2B pricing which hinders value-based pricing and the scalability of pricing strategies 12:11 - Advocating for internal pricing centers of excellence as cost-effective 14:01 - Explaining his approach to segmentation 17:26 - Stephan expressing excitement about his Zilliant role, exploring pricing software's potential and questioning its limited market growth 19:07 - The challenges of convincing the C-suite to invest in pricing solutions, suggesting on reframing pricing discussions under a new term 22:31 - Stephan's best pricing advice Key Takeaways: "If you want to industrialize your processes in pricing and value, you have to use an engine, the heart of this engine is software. And be able to touch all the business if possible, at least a large amount of the business." - Stephan Liozu "Pricing professionals should become certified change managers, it should not be an option." - Stephan Liozu People/Resources Mentioned: Thales: https://cpl.thalesgroup.com/software-monetization/software-packaging-pricing Zilliant: https://zilliant.com McKinsey: https://www.mckinsey.com Connect with Stephan Liozu: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanliozu/ Website: https://www.stephanliozu.com/ Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

6 Tammi 23min

Exploring the Future of AI: Prompt Management and Generative Thinking with Steven Forth

Exploring the Future of AI: Prompt Management and Generative Thinking with Steven Forth

Steven Forth is Ibbaka's Co-Founder, CEO, and Partner. Ibbaka is a strategic pricing advisory firm. In this episode, Steven discusses how AI, particularly transformer models, is revolutionizing business strategies by automating complex tasks like value modeling and scenario planning, making them more efficient. He emphasizes the importance of leveraging AI to explore frameworks and generate innovative solutions, such as using AI to better understand industry problems. Steven also highlights the ongoing development of prompt orchestration tools, which will soon become essential for managing AI workflows and optimizing the use of multiple models. Why you have to check out today's podcast: Discover how AI is transforming traditional frameworks like value modeling, scenario planning, and pricing, making complex processes faster and more efficient. Gain insights on how AI can help you better understand problems and create innovative solutions, ultimately improving your decision-making process. Dive into emerging concepts like prompt orchestration and how AI is evolving, giving you the tools to enhance your AI workflows for maximum effectiveness. "Create a series of prompts, create a series of context documents that you can reuse and explore the framework in ways that you never could before and find ways of applying it." - Steven Forth Topics Covered: 02:10 - How no single AI model can meet all needs, thus, advocating for multiple model for diverse perspectives and specialized capabilities 03:11 - Distinguishing between diffusion models and transformer models 05:46 - How does a transformer model work 07:28 - Understanding the [LQMs] Large Quantitative Models, [RAG] Retrieval Augmented Generation and challenges faced by companies like Pros in leveraging customer-owned data 11:39 - How Wolfram/Alpha uses mathematical reasoning to validate and simplify equations and highlighting the emergence of reasoning models for complex problem-solving 15:34 - Steven reflecting on his increasing reliance on AI tools, how they are transforming his thinking, and the need to embrace these technologies as vital partners in enhancing exploration, communication, and decision-making 17:17 - How generative AI enables more dynamic and efficient approaches to scenario planning 23:29 - Emphasizing how leveraging AI with established frameworks accelerates complex tasks like building value models 25:13 - Learning 'prompt orchestration' to optimize prompt sequences and responses 26:52 - Explaining Perplexity's limitations in generating complete outputs Key Takeaways: "It used to take Ibbaka between 40 and 60 hours of work by a highly trained person to build a value model. It now takes us less than two hours to build a better value model than we could have done before." - Steven Forth People / Resources Mentioned: Geoffrey Hinton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Hinton Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/asia Attention is All You Need paper: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_Is_All_You_Need Sam Altman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Altman Karen Chiang: https://impactpricing.com/podcast/467-minimize-churn-and-boost-your-net-dollar-retention-with-karen-chiang/ Porter's 5 Forces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter%27s_five_forces_analysis Clayton Christensen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_Christensen William Gibson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Gibson Perplexity AI: https://www.perplexity.ai ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com You.com: https://you.com Hugging Face: https://huggingface.co Connect with Steven Forth: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenforth/ Email: steven@ibbaka.com Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

30 Joulu 202430min

Blogcast: Context Driven Pricing: The Ultimate Pricing Strategy

Blogcast: Context Driven Pricing: The Ultimate Pricing Strategy

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on October 24, 2024, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/context-driven-pricing-the-ultimate-pricing-strategy/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

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