Raw and Relentless w/ Bo DePaoli24 Des 2025

Why Most Brick-and-Mortar Businesses Fail to Scale

Episode 73:

In this episode of Raw & Relentless, Bo DePaoli sits down with Joe Zentmyer, a serial entrepreneur who built First Ascent Climbing from the ground up and scaled it to 7 massive locations in Chicago—before COVID flipped thebusiness world upside down. Joe breaks down the real economics behind climbing gyms (and why some new gyms now cost $20M+), how scaling from one location to many forces you to build systems fast, and why franchising soundssmart but often fails in niche fitness models.

Then the conversation goes where mostentrepreneurs won’t go:

layoffs, entitlement, minimum wage pressure, insurance rules, and the brutal reality that costs rise faster than customers will tolerate.

They also unpack what’s happening inIllinois—taxes, regulation, post-COVID population shifts—and why brick-and-mortar can still win… but only if you build a real moat.

You’ll learn:

● Why climbing gyms can cost $3M…or $20M+ to build

● The real challenge of scaling from 1 location to 7

● Why franchising climbing gyms rarely works

● How COVID exposed the weak spots in brick-and-mortar

● Why minimum wage + insurance rules create unintended damage

● The “price cliff” problem that kills gyms and retail

● How to build a retail moat against Amazon

Connect with Joe!

Linkedin: Joe Zentmyer

Website: https://www.snaggletoothgoby.com/

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