“The Third Option” – US Covert Action with Loch Johnson (Part 1 of 2)
SpyCast20 Des 2022

“The Third Option” – US Covert Action with Loch Johnson (Part 1 of 2)

Summary Loch Johnson (Website, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss covert action aka “The Third Option.” He is the author of over 30 books on intelligence. What You’ll Learn Intelligence What is covert action Four types of covert action Foreign policy options: “War Power,” “Treaty Power,” and “Spy Power.” Examples of CA: Guatemala (1954), Indochina (1965), Afghanistan (2001), Iran (2020) Reflections Accountability The value of learning from past mistakes And much, much more … Episode Notes There is perhaps no better guest to join Andrew in this week’s exploration of covert action than Professor Emeritus at the University of Georgia Loch Johnson. Loch’s latest book, The Third Option: Covert Action and American Foreign Policy, examines the history of the complicated and sometimes controversial usage of covert action by the U.S. international affairs. Loch’s decades-long career in foreign policy and intelligence has brought him to the forefront of some of the most seminal moments within US intelligence reform: he served as special assistant to the chair of the Church Committee, staff director of the House Subcommittee on Intelligence Oversight, and worked directly with the chair of the Aspin-Brown Commission. In this two-part episode of SpyCast, Andrew and Loch unpack what makes a covert action operation successful, and how we can learn from intelligence failures and past mistakes. And… How many people have a society named after them? Loch does! Quote of the Week "History doesn't like to be shaped, it has a power all of its own, but we try to shape it at least at the margins, and we do that through covert action, sometimes called the third option…and it really comes in four packages. Package number one is propaganda… And then comes political covert actions…Thirdly is economic covert action…And then fourthly, and most dramatically, are paramilitary operations. These are war-like activities." – Loch Johnson. Resources SURFACE SKIM *Featured Resource* The Third Option, L. Johnson (Oxford, 2022) *Beginner Resources* Covert Action, E. Rosenbach & A. Peritz, Belfer Center (2009) [Background Memo] Looking back at the Church Committee, National Constitution Center (2019) [Blog Post] The Iran-Contra Affair, B. Craig, The Miller Center (2017) [Article] *SpyCasts* The Spymaster’s Prism: CIA Legend Jack Devine (2021) First Casualty: Inside the CIA Mission to Avenge 9/11 (2021) Author Debriefing: The Art of Intelligence: Lessons from a Life in the CIA’s Clandestine Service (2012) DEEPER DIVE Books A Covert Action: Reagan, the CIA and Poland, S. Jones (W.W. Norton, 2018) The Church Committee Confronts America's Spy Agencies, L. Johnson (UP of Kentucky, 2015) The Brilliant Disaster: JFK, Castro, and the Bay of Pigs, J. Rasenberger (Scribner, 2012) Executive Secrets: Covert Action and the Presidency, W. Daugherty (UP of Kentucky, 2006) Covert Action, G. Treverton (1987) Articles The Disturbing Story Of The Heart Attack Gun Invented By The CIA During The Cold War, M. Dunn, All That’s Interesting (2022) Video Iran-Contra: Reagan’s Scandal and the Unchecked Abuse of Presidential Power, US National Archives (2015) ‘Covert Action’ By U.S. To Assist Ukraine Could Be In Play, MSNBC News (2022) Primary Sources Commission on the U.S. Intelligence Community (1994-1996) Senate Select Committee with Respect to Intelligence Activities (1976) “Huge C.I.A. Operation Reported in U.S. against Antiwar Forces," S. Hersh, NYT (1974) FBI Records: COINTELPRO (1956-1971) Note on U.S. Covert Actions *Wildcard Resource* A 90s cartoon, evil beings threaten humanity, only the Wild C.A.T.s can save them: i.e., Covert Action Teams! “Covert action” as a concept has become part of the entertainment industry Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Episoder(726)

 The Minions: Putin's Expendable Spies

The Minions: Putin's Expendable Spies

They were a spy cell like no other — operating from quiet British suburbs, hailing from Bulgaria, and working on behalf of Russia. Their handler dubbed them “The Minions,” and their plots stretched across Europe and spanned honeytraps, abductions, and murder. At the time of this recording, six have been convicted and await sentencing. To parse out the case, we spoke with Gordon Corera, a British author and co-host of The Rest is Classified podcast. Check out The Rest is Classified here, or wherever you get your podcasts.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Special Guest: Paul Whelan Russian Assassinations in the UK: Inside Three Notorious Cases with Historian Nigel West Curator's Corner: Kevin P. Riehle on Russian Intelligence Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

6 Mai 30min

Escalation: Tracking the US-Ukraine Relationship

Escalation: Tracking the US-Ukraine Relationship

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29 Apr 38min

Where the ‘West V. Russia’ Plot Begins

Where the ‘West V. Russia’ Plot Begins

Why does Vladimir Putin often say that the West is conspiring to weaken Russia? Historian James Crossland traces this narrative back to a British intelligence officer and a failed assassination attempt on Vladimir Lenin in 1918. The story is featured in his new book, Rogue Agent, from Secret Plots to Psychological Warfare, the Untold Story of Robert Bruce Lockhart. James takes us into Lockhart’s psyche and lays out how a single moment in the dying days of Czarist Russia helped fuel a century of paranoia and rifts. SPY Artifact Highlight: Trotsky Ice Axe  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Sidney Reilly: Master Spy with Benny Morris Accessory to a Mission - Gadgets and Gear For The Well-Dressed Spy SpyCast | Rise of Devils - The Origin of Modern Terrorism with James Crossland Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.   Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

22 Apr 31min

DOGE Layoffs and the Counterintelligence Threats They Pose

DOGE Layoffs and the Counterintelligence Threats They Pose

Government employees were dismissed with startling swiftness and sweeping in the midst of the Trump administration's relentless pursuit to pare down the federal workforce. The sheer number of fired personnel and the manner in which US officials let them go have led to concerns that disillusioned former employees may share what they know with foreign intelligence services, jeopardizing the very security they once sought to protect. Bill Evanina, former Director of Counterintelligence, discusses this fear and how foreign adversaries are exploiting the moment. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Dir. of National Intelligence Roundtable: 2025 Society for Intelligence History Panel Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Alan E. Kohler, Jr. Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

15 Apr 31min

Taiwan: China’s Testing Ground for Intelligence Operations

Taiwan: China’s Testing Ground for Intelligence Operations

It's no secret that China has recently stepped up political and military pressure on the democratically governed island of Taiwan. But then, there are the Chinese Communist Party's covert efforts: Recruiting from the inside, gathering intelligence, and exerting influence. Executive Director of the Global Taiwan Institute Russell Hsiao breaks down Beijing Shadow Games in Taiwan. If you liked this episode, check out these links: SpyCast | “Making Sense of China, Taiwan, & America” – Pacific Intelligence with Bonny Lin Understanding Chinese Espionage Through 900 Cases | SpyCast Join Valerie aboard the Spies at Sea cruise August 30 - September 8, 2025! On this 10-day voyage across the Mediterranean, you’ll explore beautiful sights and ancient cities while immersing yourself in the world of espionage with exclusive seminars. Learn more here: https://www.spiesliesnukes.com/spies-at-seas-2025  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

8 Apr 29min

Introducing Targeted

Introducing Targeted

Targeted uncovers harrowing stories of people who have been singled out and systematically dismantled—whether for political reasons, personal vendettas, or simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Each episode deep dives into the tactics used against someone, the devastating consequences, and the remarkable lessons they’ve learned in their fight to survive. Targeted gives listeners the tools to recognize and resist being targeted themselves. If you’ve ever wondered how systems meant to protect can be weaponized, or what to do if you find yourself in the crosshairs, this podcast is for you. Find episodes of Targeted at targeted.com, YouTube, or wherever you get podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

2 Apr 33min

Understanding Chinese Espionage Through 900 Cases

Understanding Chinese Espionage Through 900 Cases

Nicholas Eftimiades’ 34 year career in government spanned the CIA, State Department and the Defense Intelligence Agency. He's published three books that examine the structure, methodology and operations of China's intelligence services. This, he says, led a Chinese communist newspaper to declare him an enemy of the state in the ‘90s. Now, Nick is retired, and he's been building an unusual database tracking some 900 cases of Chinese espionage. We sat down to dive in.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: How China's spy balloon isn't so unique for espionage technology Curator's Corner | Trafficking Data with Aynne Kokas Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

1 Apr 29min

Remembering The CIA’s Mind Games

Remembering The CIA’s Mind Games

Sidney Gottlieb was one of the CIA’s star chemists during the Cold War. As head of MKUltra, he ran a brazen—and deadly—program aimed at mind control.  Gottlieb and fellow scientists tried to keep the work secret by destroying files, but historian John Lisle has new details from the six boxes that remained untouched. He shares insights and reflections straight from the mouths of MKUltra’s perpetrators and victims.  John’s new book, Project Mind Control, sheds light on one of the CIA’s darkest moments which still haunts the agency. Available now for pre-order.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: The Dirty Tricks Department with John Lisle THE SOUND: Mystery of Havana Syndrome Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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