21. Against the Hierarchy of Bodies w/ Michelle Cassandra Johnson

Sitting down today with racial equity educator and spiritual director Michelle Cassandra Johnson about what she calls the “hierarchy of bodies” — the long-standing social logic that determines whose lives are protected, valued, and believed. Against mainstream claims that rising authoritarianism is shocking or unprecedented, Michelle argues that today’s crises reflect very old patterns of domination rooted in race, power, and proximity to privilege.

Why do some communities experience the current political moment as rupture while others recognize it as continuity? What are the downstream effects of the backlash against diversity, equity, and inclusion work? What does anti-racism training actually look like on the ground — and why re relationship, solidarity, and accountability more important than shame or guilt? Is multiracial community grounded in care the strongest inoculation against fascism?

Part 2 now up on Patreon.

Michelle Cassandra Johnson is an author, activist, spiritual teacher, racial equity consultant and educator, and intuitive and shamanic healer. For over 25 years as a racial equity educator, she has worked with large corporations, non-profits, and community groups. Michelle is a six-time published author, and in May 2025, her sixth book, The Wisdom of the Hive, co-written with her best friend, Amy Burtaine, was released.

She lives in North Carolina with her husband, sweet dog, Jasper, and her honeybees.

https://www.michellecjohnson.com/.

Notes:

All theme music by the amazing www.kalliemarie.com.

Antifascist Dad: Urgent Conversations with Young People in Chaotic Times (North Atlantic Books, April 2026).
Preorder: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/807656/antifascist-dad-by-matthew-remski/

Instagram: @matthew_remski

TikTok: @antifascistdad

Bluesky: @matthewremski.bsky.social (Bluesky Social)

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AntifascistDad

Chapters

(00:02:06) - Carney Takes all that stuff he said about Davos back
(00:08:46) - Michelle on Anti-Fascism
(00:11:09) - White Shock to the System
(00:20:53) - Anti-Racism Training
(00:32:03) - Understanding Whiteness

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Episoder(82)

UNLOCK 42.1 Friendship (is not easy)

An excerpt from the audiobook of Antifascist Dad: Urgent Conversations with Young People in Chaotic Times — Chapter Eight, Friendship Is Not Easy. I'm putting this out as a companion to my interview w...

9 Aug 43min

UNLOCK: 41.1 The Anti-Vance Would Like a Word Pt 2 w/ Nathan Evans Fox

Part 2 of my convo with Nathan Evans Fox, going deeper into the psychological and theological architecture of what JD Vance is actually doing in his new memoir, and what it costs him and everyone else...

2 Aug 45min

42. Keep the Little Flame Alive w/ Carsie Blanton

I sit down with socialist singer-songwriter Carsie Blanton to explore how unstructured freedom — from schooling, the music industry, and institutional religion — became the soil for her political and ...

29 Jul 1h 1min

UNLOCK 40.1 Episodic and Thematic Thinking and Feeling

Picking up a on thread from my interview with Nora Loreto interview: a coda on the tension between zooming in on the daily news cycle and zooming out to a coherent analytical framework. I draw on Shan...

26 Jul 19min

41. The Anti-Vance Would Like a Word w/ Nathan Evans Fox

JD Vance's Communion presents itself as a spiritual memoir but functions as a rebranding operation: It's the same narcissistic trick he played with Hillbilly Elegy. Who better to sit down with to sort...

22 Jul 52min

UNLOCK 39.1 Epistemic Injustice

Years ago, I failed to understand my autistic son's needs. Instead of fully taking in his distress at school, I projected my own story, values, and experience on him. He'll manage. He'll get used to i...

19 Jul 21min

40: We Live on This Planet to Do Good Work w/ Nora Loreto

Today I sit down with Nora Loreto, a Quebec City-based journalist and labour organizer, to discuss her five-volume Canada in Decline series — a forensic history of the dismantling of Canada's social d...

15 Jul 1h 8min

UNLOCK 38.1 Gramsci’s Wars of Position, Wars of Maneuver

Antonio Gramsci, writing in a fascist prison in the early 1930s, distinguished between wars of position—the slow struggle over culture, values, and consent—and wars of maneuver, or direct confrontatio...

12 Jul 33min