Building the Automated AGI Lab: Core Automation's Jerry Tworek and Rohan Anil

Building the Automated AGI Lab: Core Automation's Jerry Tworek and Rohan Anil

Jerry Tworek led reasoning at OpenAI, convinced that scaling reinforcement learning was the path to AGI. Rohan Anil co-led Gemini pre-training and built the Shampoo optimizer. Now they've teamed up at Core Automation on a contrarian premise: the transformer has carried us as far as it can, and the bottleneck to smarter systems is no longer scale — it's the architecture itself. The missing capability is continual learning, models that adapt at test time, which transformers can't do. In-context learning taps out fast (Codex needs compacting after ~20 minutes) and fine-tuning invites catastrophic forgetting. Rohan argues pre-training and RL should be optimized end-to-end, and that transformers spend computation inefficiently. They lay out why the largest labs won't chase alternatives while locked in the coding-agent race, and why building the world's most automated lab starts with automating kernel generation—the one place frontier models still lose to a high-taste human. Hosted by Sonya Huang and Pat Grady, Sequoia Capital

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Episoder(105)

Chai Discovery's Bitter Lesson: Drug Design Is Another Scaling Problem

Chai Discovery's Bitter Lesson: Drug Design Is Another Scaling Problem

Most people treat biology as a bespoke, messy science. Josh Meier and Matt McPartlon, co-founders of Chai Discovery, treat it as an engineering problem. They make the case that drug design obeys the b...

4 Aug 47min

Factory's Matan Grinberg: The Coming ‘Dark Factory’ Where Software Builds Itself

Factory's Matan Grinberg: The Coming ‘Dark Factory’ Where Software Builds Itself

Factory started building fully autonomous coding agents in April 2023, two years before enterprises were ready. Matan Grinberg now says this is indistinguishable from being wrong. The Factory co-found...

21 Jul 51min

Anthropic's Katelyn Lesse & Angela Jiang: Building an Ecosystem, not a Walled Garden

Anthropic's Katelyn Lesse & Angela Jiang: Building an Ecosystem, not a Walled Garden

Katelyn Lesse and Angela Jiang lead the team building Anthropic's developer platform - the layer that both outside builders and Anthropic's own products run on top of. Angela frames the platform as a ...

14 Jul 48min

Inside Zipline's Autonomous System: 140M Miles, Zero Incidents

Inside Zipline's Autonomous System: 140M Miles, Zero Incidents

The largest commercial autonomous system on earth isn't a robotaxi fleet — it's Zipline, which has flown 140 million autonomous miles with zero safety incidents. Co-founder Keller Rinaudo Cliffton and...

7 Jul 55min

Why Hardware-Software Co-Design Is AI's Real 100x: Dylan Patel of SemiAnalysis

Why Hardware-Software Co-Design Is AI's Real 100x: Dylan Patel of SemiAnalysis

Dylan Patel, founder of SemiAnalysis, argues the biggest gains in AI don't come from faster chips, they come from software-hardware co-design. Optimizing the model, the kernels, and the silicon togeth...

30 Jun 1h 10min

Memory and Continual Learning: Engram's Dan Biderman and Jessy Lin

Memory and Continual Learning: Engram's Dan Biderman and Jessy Lin

Dan Biderman and Jessy Lin, co-founders of Engram, are building a neolab around memory and continual learning, which they call two sides of the same coin. Their contrarian premise: instead of stuffing...

24 Jun 44min

Simulating Humans at Scale: Simile's Joon Sung Park

Simulating Humans at Scale: Simile's Joon Sung Park

The race to build superintelligence is producing models that keep getting better at objective problems, but not at behaving like actual people. Joon Sung Park, founder and CEO of Simile and creator of...

16 Jun 38min

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