Episode 186: Matt Drengler on Why Ari is Wrong About Podcasting

Ari Paparo and Eric Franchi sit down with Matthew Drengler, Head of Partnerships at Podscribe, to unpack the messy reality of podcast measurement. They explore attribution, incrementality, the shift from audio to video, social clips, HLS, and why advertisers still need reliable performance data.The conversation then turns to the changing ad tech landscape, including the open web, Nielsen’s acquisition of DoubleVerify, measurement industry pressure, The Trade Desk’s earnings, PubMatic, Viant, and advertising to AI agents. Takeaways: Video is expanding podcast audiences, but it is also creating new measurement silos across YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and other platforms. Podcast attribution can use RSS prefixes, pixels, and listener-level signals, but those approaches become harder as consumption spreads beyond traditional RSS. Promo codes and vanity URLs capture only part of podcast-driven conversions, making more sophisticated attribution important for performance advertisers. Measurement can unlock more advertiser investment, while independent measurement and trust remain major industry concerns. Ad tech is shifting toward CTV, retail media, apps, creator channels, and AI while traditional open-web and measurement businesses face increasing pressure. Chapters:00:00 Welcome and Episode Introduction02:04 Marketecture Live Chicago03:08 Meet Matthew Drengler, Head of Partnerships at Podscribe04:43 What Podscribe Does05:45 Why Podcasts Are Moving to Video07:56 The Growing Podcast Platform Problem08:32 Apple HLS and the Future of Video Podcast Measurement09:58 What Actually Counts as a Podcast?11:41 Should Social Clips Be Part of Podcast Ad Packages?13:15 Why Social Podcast Clips Are Hard to Measure15:07 How Podcast Attribution and Incrementality Work18:02 Should Podcasts Be Treated Like Influencer Marketing?20:27 Why Better Measurement Unlocks Advertising Budgets20:47 Networks, Independent Podcasts and Performance22:17 AI-Powered Podcast Ad Verification23:55 Spotify's Podcast Ad Skip Discussion26:07 Ad Tech News Begins26:51 Is the Open Web Dying?34:38 Phia and the Cookie-Stuffing Controversy37:36 Nielsen Acquires DoubleVerify40:19 Independence and Trust in Measurement43:40 Comscore and the Measurement Market Shakeup45:45 Viant's Measurement Layoffs and AI Push46:33 The Trade Desk Earnings Breakdown50:03 PubMatic's Growth and Agentic Opportunity51:26 Viant, CTV and the MySpace Question54:00 Perplexity, Mobian and Ads Targeted to AI Agents55:47 Closing With Matthew Drengler Ari Paparo, Eric Franchi, Matt Drengler Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices