“China’s Corporate Spy War” – with CNBC’s Eamon Javers 
SpyCast8 Aug 2023

“China’s Corporate Spy War” – with CNBC’s Eamon Javers 

Summary Eamon Javers (Twitter, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter, LinkedIn) to discuss China’s Corporate Spy War. Eamon is the Senior Washington correspondent at CNBC. What You’ll Learn Intelligence Why go after corporate secrets? What’s at stake for the United States The case of Yanjun Xu and GE Aviation Military implications of economic espionage Reflections The innovation nation Simple twists of fate And much, much more … ***FULL SHOWNOTES AVAILABLE HERE*** Episode Notes This week on SpyCast, Andrew is joined by CNBC’s Senior Washington Correspondent Eamon Javers to discuss his new documentary, China’s Corporate Spy War. Quotes of the Week “I don't think people in corporate America knew that, fully understood the scale of the threat. They thought this was kind of an annoyance like shoplifting is, and that you kind of just build in some procedures and there's some sunk costs associated with that, and you move on. What these intelligence guys were describing was an entirely different threat. This was the elimination of major American brands from the global marketplace.” - Eamon Javers. Resources SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* Spies: The Epic Intelligence War Between East vs. West with Calder Walton (2023) The Counterintelligence Chief with FBI Assistant Director Alan Kohler (2023) Trafficking Data: The Digital Struggle with China with Aynne Kokas (2023) The FBI & Cyber with Cyber Division Chief Bryan Vorndran, Part 1 (2022) The FBI & Cyber with Cyber Division Chief Bryan Vorndran, Part 2 (2022) Dealing with Russia – A Conversation with Counterintelligence Legend Jim Olson (2022) *Beginner Resources* What is Corporate Espionage?, A. T. Tunggal, UpGuard (2023) [Article] Timeline: U.S.-China Relations, Council on Foreign Relations (n.d.) [Timeline] A Tale of High Stakes Corporate Espionage, Bloomberg (2023) [7:44 video] ***FULL SHOWNOTES AVAILABLE HERE*** DEEPER DIVE Books SPIES: The Epic Intelligence War Between East and West, C. Walton (Simon & Schuster, 2023) The Scientist and the Spy: A True Story of China, the FBI, and Industrial Espionage, M. Hvistendahl (Riverhead Books, 2020) To Catch a Spy: The Art of Counterintelligence, J. Olson (GUP, 2019) Broker, Trader, Lawyer, Spy: The Secret World of Corporate Espionage, E. Javers (HarperCollins, 2010) Primary Sources A Survey of Reported Chinese Espionage, 2000 to the Present, CSIS (2023) Justice Department Announces Five Cases as Part of Recently Launched Disruptive Technology Strike Force, U.S. Department of Justice (2023) Chinese Government Intelligence Officer Sentenced to 20 Years in Prison for Espionage Crimes, Attempting to Steal Trade Secrets From Cincinnati Company, U.S. Department of Justice (2022) Executive Summary - China: The Risk to Corporate America, FBI (2019) Economic Espionage Act (1996) *Wildcard Resource* The Second Letter from Père d’Entrecolles to Father Orry (1722) The art of porcelain making and selling was mastered under the Qing Dynasty. The West got curious and knew the form of pottery could be profitable to produce on their own. Because of the secrets shared by this Jesuit priest, China’s monopoly on porcelain production quickly toppled and the practice was spread across Europe. ***FULL SHOWNOTES AVAILABLE HERE*** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Episoder(724)

Where the ‘West V. Russia’ Plot Begins

Where the ‘West V. Russia’ Plot Begins

Why does Vladimir Putin often say that the West is conspiring to weaken Russia? Historian James Crossland traces this narrative back to a British intelligence officer and a failed assassination attempt on Vladimir Lenin in 1918. The story is featured in his new book, Rogue Agent, from Secret Plots to Psychological Warfare, the Untold Story of Robert Bruce Lockhart. James takes us into Lockhart’s psyche and lays out how a single moment in the dying days of Czarist Russia helped fuel a century of paranoia and rifts. SPY Artifact Highlight: Trotsky Ice Axe  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Sidney Reilly: Master Spy with Benny Morris Accessory to a Mission - Gadgets and Gear For The Well-Dressed Spy SpyCast | Rise of Devils - The Origin of Modern Terrorism with James Crossland Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.   Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

22 Apr 31min

DOGE Layoffs and the Counterintelligence Threats They Pose

DOGE Layoffs and the Counterintelligence Threats They Pose

Government employees were dismissed with startling swiftness and sweeping in the midst of the Trump administration's relentless pursuit to pare down the federal workforce. The sheer number of fired personnel and the manner in which US officials let them go have led to concerns that disillusioned former employees may share what they know with foreign intelligence services, jeopardizing the very security they once sought to protect. Bill Evanina, former Director of Counterintelligence, discusses this fear and how foreign adversaries are exploiting the moment. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Dir. of National Intelligence Roundtable: 2025 Society for Intelligence History Panel Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Alan E. Kohler, Jr. Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

15 Apr 31min

Taiwan: China’s Testing Ground for Intelligence Operations

Taiwan: China’s Testing Ground for Intelligence Operations

It's no secret that China has recently stepped up political and military pressure on the democratically governed island of Taiwan. But then, there are the Chinese Communist Party's covert efforts: Recruiting from the inside, gathering intelligence, and exerting influence. Executive Director of the Global Taiwan Institute Russell Hsiao breaks down Beijing Shadow Games in Taiwan. If you liked this episode, check out these links: SpyCast | “Making Sense of China, Taiwan, & America” – Pacific Intelligence with Bonny Lin Understanding Chinese Espionage Through 900 Cases | SpyCast Join Valerie aboard the Spies at Sea cruise August 30 - September 8, 2025! On this 10-day voyage across the Mediterranean, you’ll explore beautiful sights and ancient cities while immersing yourself in the world of espionage with exclusive seminars. Learn more here: https://www.spiesliesnukes.com/spies-at-seas-2025  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

8 Apr 29min

Introducing Targeted

Introducing Targeted

Targeted uncovers harrowing stories of people who have been singled out and systematically dismantled—whether for political reasons, personal vendettas, or simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Each episode deep dives into the tactics used against someone, the devastating consequences, and the remarkable lessons they’ve learned in their fight to survive. Targeted gives listeners the tools to recognize and resist being targeted themselves. If you’ve ever wondered how systems meant to protect can be weaponized, or what to do if you find yourself in the crosshairs, this podcast is for you. Find episodes of Targeted at targeted.com, YouTube, or wherever you get podcasts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

2 Apr 33min

Understanding Chinese Espionage Through 900 Cases

Understanding Chinese Espionage Through 900 Cases

Nicholas Eftimiades’ 34 year career in government spanned the CIA, State Department and the Defense Intelligence Agency. He's published three books that examine the structure, methodology and operations of China's intelligence services. This, he says, led a Chinese communist newspaper to declare him an enemy of the state in the ‘90s. Now, Nick is retired, and he's been building an unusual database tracking some 900 cases of Chinese espionage. We sat down to dive in.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: How China's spy balloon isn't so unique for espionage technology Curator's Corner | Trafficking Data with Aynne Kokas Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

1 Apr 29min

Remembering The CIA’s Mind Games

Remembering The CIA’s Mind Games

Sidney Gottlieb was one of the CIA’s star chemists during the Cold War. As head of MKUltra, he ran a brazen—and deadly—program aimed at mind control.  Gottlieb and fellow scientists tried to keep the work secret by destroying files, but historian John Lisle has new details from the six boxes that remained untouched. He shares insights and reflections straight from the mouths of MKUltra’s perpetrators and victims.  John’s new book, Project Mind Control, sheds light on one of the CIA’s darkest moments which still haunts the agency. Available now for pre-order.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: The Dirty Tricks Department with John Lisle THE SOUND: Mystery of Havana Syndrome Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

25 Mar 31min

From Covert to Overt: Valerie Plame on political retaliation

From Covert to Overt: Valerie Plame on political retaliation

Valerie Plame’s clandestine life made headlines in 2003 after her CIA cover was leaked to the press. Her husband, an ambassador, had gone to Niger to investigate whether yellowcake uranium had been transferred to Iraq to make weapons of mass destruction.  He publicly challenged the Bush administration on what we now know was false intelligence. Valerie’s unmasking was seen as retaliation. Now, over 20 years later, she reflects on the political scandal, and where her concerns lie today. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Author Debriefing: Burned with Valerie Plame National Security Now: An Evening with Gina Bennett and Peter Bergen Join Valerie aboard the Spies at Sea cruise August 30 - September 8, 2025! On this 10-day voyage across the Mediterranean, you’ll explore beautiful sights and ancient cities while immersing yourself in the world of espionage with exclusive seminars. Learn more here: https://www.spiesliesnukes.com/spies-at-seas-2025  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

18 Mar 30min

Eyes on The Ground: The National Resistance Front in Afghanistan

Eyes on The Ground: The National Resistance Front in Afghanistan

After the Taliban took back control of Afghanistan, the National Resistance Front rose up to defy them. We spoke with their leader Ahmad Massoud, who has overseen hundreds of military and intelligence-gathering operations. He’s following the footsteps of his father, who led his own resistance group, the Northern Alliance, until members of Al Qaeda assassinated him two days before they conducted the September 11 terrorist attacks. Fast forward to the mid-2000s, International Spy Museum executive director Chris Costa, then a human intelligence officer, worked with that group to develop intel on the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Now, in the wake of the U.S. withdrawal and Afghanistan’s collapse, Costa says the U.S. is losing an opportunity to support Massoud and the National Resistance Front. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Ali Maisam Nazary Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Christine Abizaid Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

11 Mar 29min

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