59: Joe Gebbia - Design We Deserve

Joe Gebbia (Website, X, LinkedIn, Wikipedia) is the first U.S. Chief Design Officer, leading the National Design Studio. He is also the co-founder of Airbnb and Samara. The NDS and this role were created by executive order of President Trump in August 2025. I met Joe Washington, D.C, to reflect on the past year and talk about bringing the care and ambition of great product design to the digital services that every American uses. Joe & NDS just launched America.gov, their flagship project of the last year: the central entry point for how Americans get what they need from the government. Joe believes that design is how you respect and value the people who use a product or service. At Airbnb, that meant helping strangers feel comfortable in each other’s homes. In government, it means refusing to accept a low bar for the websites and processes that Americans use to interact with the government. We begin with CritBuns, Joe’s RISD project that taught him that design is as much about storytelling as it is about product. Then, we discuss what he learned about designing for trust at Airbnb and his initial work at DOGE, streamlining and digitizing the federal retirement process. Joe walks me through America.gov, a single, AI-powered front door to government services. We discuss the challenges of scale and designing for people who are skeptical of both government and AI, including what it means to pass the “grandma test.” We wrap up with why ambitious technologists should aspire to work in government and his collaboration with Airbnb co-founders Brian Chesky and Nathan Blecharczyk. I hope this conversation raises your expectations for the things we’ve learned to tolerate, and inspires you to think about how you might serve your community or your country. Full transcript & links at dialectic.fm/joe-gebbia --- Dialectic is presented by Notion. As new models and agents arrive constantly, Notion acts as a context and consolidation layer for all the ways you and your team work with AI: a command center or simply a resilience layer, so your context comes with you even if you switch models or agents. You can also work with agents right inside Notion and share skills with your team through the Skills API. Learn more at notion.com/dialectic. --- Timestamps: 0:00 Opening Highlights 1:26 Intro: Joe Gebbia 4:12 CritBuns & Why Design is Half Story 15:24 Airbnb, The Feeling of Belonging, & Designing for Trust 28:29 Public Service & Fixing Federal Retirement 42:16 Speed, Craft, and Respect 48:43 ND Studio Projects: TrumpRx, Trump Accounts, and Realfood.gov 56:18 America.gov: A New Front Door to Government 1:05:35 Trust, Privacy, and Government AI 1:15:30 America.gov’s Roadmap 1:19:54 Recruiting for ND Studio and Public Service 1:23:41 Reflecting on Year One & Passing the Grandma Test 1:31:05 A Ticking Clock Toward 2028 & Building Beyond One Administration 1:35:44 AI & Product Development 1:38:36 Closing Questions: Charles & Ray Eames, AirBnB Co-Founders, & Trust in People