Johanna Samuels with Madison Cunningham

On this week’s Talkhouse Podcast, we’ve got a pair of fantastic music makers who also happen to be… women in music. That’s their joke, not mine—you’ll hear. It’s Johanna Samuels and Madison Cunningham.

Though she’s from New York, Johanna Samuels’ music has always had West Coast vibes—it makes perfect sense that she now calls Los Angeles home. Her latest album, Sorry, Kid, just came out, and it’s got an interesting backstory: The songs were written years ago but never finished, and there were false starts making them work this time around. But she found a great collaborator in Jonathan Rado—you’ll hear her refer to “Rado” a bunch in this chat—and finally broke through to a stunning set of mellow, downcast songs. You’ll hear the influence of Aimee Mann, Tom Petty, Elliott Smith—if those are your thing, give it a close listen.

The other half of today’s conversation, Madison Cunningham, plays a little bit on Samuels’ record. The two are old friends, and you may have heard Cunningham in a variety of disparate places over the years: She played with Andrew Bird, and the two covered the lone Buckingham-Nicks album together. She’s toured with big names, including Harry Styles. Her 2022 album, Revealer, won the Grammy for Best Folk Album. Cunningham’s third album, Ace, was released late last year, and it’s a winning left turn—less guitar, more piano, a little weirder than ever before. Check out the Samuels’ track “Rare,” which features some playing and singing from Cunningham.

This episode was recorded with our guests in the same room, and you can hear the friendly energy these two have. They joke around about being “women in music” as well as the long road to Samuels’ album, Fiona Apple, Tom Petty, and much, much more. I hope you enjoy listening as much as they did recording.

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Johanna Samuels and Madison Cunningham for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the other great shows in our network. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

0:00 Intro

2:18 Start of convo

2:20 On “women having a moment” in music, and Pitchfork’s mean reviews

3:51 On their newest albums, seeing how art comes out of each others’ lives, and artistic phases

7:01 On releasing songs after the inspiring emotion has passed, mental health, and using songs to process emotions

09:22 On the joy of creation, tarot cards, and the addictive qualities of the creative process

12:17 On the recording process, and finding the sound and lyrics

13:46 On Tom Petty, finding inspiration from great songs, simple lyrics, and cover songs

17:05 On learning to write songs by dissecting other songs, inspiring each other, and deceptively simple pop songs

20:45 On the timeline of making an album, the “Sha Sha Redemption,” and the importance of fun

25:06 On humor and self-awareness in sad songs

28:09 On their “women are having a moment” joke, dealing with anger, and not wanting to be known for one emotion

29:43 On how male songwriters approach expressing emotions differently, and if being hot makes for shallower art

33:58 On being grounded, loving life, discomfort, and feeling free to make new art

37:24 On other artists’ paths and growth, and being willing to try new things

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