2022: RECOIL, Part 2

Today’s guest is the writer Mary Gaitskill, whose novels and short stories have been adapted into motion pictures and nominated for major literary prizes like the PEN/Faulkner award, the National Book Award, and the National Critics Circle Award, and if you’ve read any of them, you know why, you know how her characters make you feel seen, for all the cruelty and strength and fragility and beauty and ugliness you possess, how they remain alive within you long after you turn the last page, and change the way you move through the world. We first met when she interviewed me for it, actually, to talk about incels — with whom she feels a kinship for many reasons that we get into today... ———————————————————————"Hallelujah" (cover) performed by Jeff Buckley. 1994. Courtesy of Columbia Records. ——————————————————————— Read Mary's brilliant essays from "Out of It": https://marygaitskill.substack.com/ and listen to our first interview if you missed it: https://marygaitskill.substack.com/p/only-the-lonely ——————————————————————— Please check out my Patreon channel for bonus content, newsletters, community, and early, ad-free episodes on www.patreon.com/naamakates ——————————————————————— INCEL is created and produced by Naama Kates for Crawlspace Media. Music by Cyrus Melchor. —————————————————————— If you or someone you know is struggling emotionally, or having a hard time, please call someone, or contact one of the excellent resources provided below. —————————————————————— Suicide Prevention Lifeline w: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ t: 1.800.273.8255 —————————————————————— Samaritans Website: https://www.samaritans.org and telephone (UK): 116.123 —————————————————————— Please contact Naama at INCEL with any comments, inquiries, or just random thoughts: e: theincelproject@gmail.com

9 Feb 20231h 11min

Today’s guest , Matt, is also a former incel, who ascended at 23, and is currently married — essentially — with four children, and studying psychology. He also has a YouTube channel, sort of a self-help for incels, called @BlackPillMedicine. It’s a tiny channel, in a sea of similarly themed content - self improvement, DIY psychology, red pillers, and the like — but Matt stands apart from this crowd, for a number of reasons, including his comprehensive theory of inceldom as a social disorder. Check out his channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqK6Px_Vjiha_-wxOEwUAw "Children Will Listen / Finale" from Into the Woods by Stephen Sondheim, cast recording. 2022. Courtesy of Craft Records. ———————————————————————Please check out my Patreon channel for bonus content, newsletters, community, and early, ad-free episodes on www.patreon.com/naamakates ——————————————————————— INCEL is created and produced by Naama Kates for Crawlspace Media. Music by Cyrus Melchor. —————————————————————— If you or someone you know is struggling emotionally, or having a hard time, please call someone, or contact one of the excellent resources provided below. —————————————————————— Suicide Prevention Lifeline w: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ t: 1.800.273.8255 —————————————————————— Samaritans Website: https://www.samaritans.org and telephone (UK): 116.123 —————————————————————— Please contact Naama at INCEL with any comments, inquiries, or just random thoughts: e: theincelproject@gmail.com

12 Jan 20231h 3min

Happy New Year, world! Before our first official episode of the year, with Black Pill Medicine, here's a little bonus -- the audio from my chat with Dr. Carolina Hermes of Brazil, that she graciously let me share with you all here. Carolina's YouTube channel is youtube.com/@carohermes, and her Twitter account is @Manosphere101. (The bio is "satire of the Manosphere" and I know some listeners were curious if this would be an anti-incel perspective, but it really wasn't -- very interesting though!) Enjoy! ———————————————————————Please check out my Patreon channel for bonus content, newsletters, community, and early, ad-free episodes on www.patreon.com/naamakates ——————————————————————— INCEL is created and produced by Naama Kates for Crawlspace Media. Music by Cyrus Melchor. —————————————————————— If you or someone you know is struggling emotionally, or having a hard time, please call someone, or contact one of the excellent resources provided below. —————————————————————— Suicide Prevention Lifeline w: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ t: 1.800.273.8255 —————————————————————— Samaritans Website: https://www.samaritans.org and telephone (UK): 116.123 —————————————————————— Please contact Naama at INCEL with any comments, inquiries, or just random thoughts: e: theincelproject@gmail.com

7 Jan 202352min

Hello world! Today's episode is a bonus, year-in-review medley, as a way to take inventory before heading on into 2023. PodMother loves all her children equally, so we're not going to a "Best Of" list. Instead, this is going to be a clip show, like they do on TV, to recap what we’ve learned, and check in our lovely guests.Outro: "We Are Born When We Die" by Apollo Sunshine. 2008. Courtesy of Headless Heroes. ——————————————————————— INCEL is created and produced by Naama Kates for Crawlspace Media. Music by Cyrus Melchor. —————————————————————— If you or someone you know is struggling emotionally, or having a hard time, please call someone, or contact one of the excellent resources provided below. —————————————————————— Suicide Prevention Lifeline w: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ t: 1.800.273.8255 —————————————————————— Samaritans Website: https://www.samaritans.org and telephone (UK): 116.123 —————————————————————— Please contact Naama at INCEL with any comments, inquiries, or just random thoughts: e: theincelproject@gmail.com

15 Des 202229min

Today we’re going to continue this streak of exceptional interviews and our branching out of the WEIRD world we often inhabit (that’s the acronym WEIRD: Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic) with Karun, a currycel living in India. This is a timely interview in part because just last week we had a mind numbingly bad article in GNET (the global network on extremism and technology) titled “Incel Extremism in India: A view from the global south.” I won’t be including that link in the notes but you can google. I’m sure you’ll all be shocked when I tell you that none of its “insights” are reflected in the conversation you’re about to here... Outro: "Take Me Out" by Franz Ferdinand. 2004. Courtesy of Domino Records. ——————————————————————— INCEL is created and produced by Naama Kates for Crawlspace Media. Music by Cyrus Melchor. —————————————————————— If you or someone you know is struggling emotionally, or having a hard time, please call someone, or contact one of the excellent resources provided below. —————————————————————— Suicide Prevention Lifeline w: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ t: 1.800.273.8255 —————————————————————— Samaritans Website: https://www.samaritans.org and telephone (UK): 116.123 —————————————————————— Please contact Naama at INCEL with any comments, inquiries, or just random thoughts: e: theincelproject@gmail.com

8 Des 20221h 5min

Happy Thanksgiving, fellow Yanks! In honor of NatSec November, I decided to continue the discussion about the state of security and intelligence today, and there’s absolutely no one know who understands it better than Phil Gurski (@borealissaves), president and CEO of Borealis Threat & Risk consulting, 20 year veteran of CSIS - the canadian security and intelligence service, author of multiple books, and host of the "Canadian Intelligence, Eh" podcast... Listen to Phil on NATO's Deep Dive podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/deep-dive/id1591430137 And check out Phil's podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/canadian-intelligence-eh/id1455756173 and check out the Borealis Threat and Risk national security blog: https://borealisthreatandrisk.com/blog/ Outro: "Burn the Witch" by Radiohead, 2016, c/o XL Records.——————————————————————— INCEL is created and produced by Naama Kates for Crawlspace Media. Music by Cyrus Melchor. —————————————————————— If you or someone you know is struggling emotionally, or having a hard time, please call someone, or contact one of the excellent resources provided below. —————————————————————— Suicide Prevention Lifeline w: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ t: 1.800.273.8255 —————————————————————— Samaritans Website: https://www.samaritans.org and telephone (UK): 116.123 —————————————————————— Please contact Naama at INCEL with any comments, inquiries, or just random thoughts: e: theincelproject@gmail.com

25 Nov 202242min

This past Tuesday was Election Day in the United States, so in keeping with the vaguely political climate around here, it's time for a State of the Union episode, if the union here is the global village of experts in countering violent extremism.We haven’t had such an episode in quite some time, because I've been rather frustrated with that community's fixation on incels, and I couldn't think of an "incel expert" to have on the show. Instead, today we talk about what terrorism actually is, and what it actually isn’t, with Liam Duffy (@LiamSD12). Liam is an advisor to the Counter Extremism Project, a friend, and a great writer, and graciously agreed to come on and talk a little shop and dispel some stubborn myths about how this all works…Read Liam's work for UnHerd at https://unherd.com/author/liam-duffy/Outro: Nobody Speak by DJ Shadow feat. Run the Jewels. 2016. Courtesy of Mass Appeal.——————————————————————— INCEL is created and produced by Naama Kates for Crawlspace Media. Music by Cyrus Melchor. —————————————————————— If you or someone you know is struggling emotionally, or having a hard time, please call someone, or contact one of the excellent resources provided below. —————————————————————— Suicide Prevention Lifeline w: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ t: 1.800.273.8255 —————————————————————— Samaritans Website: https://www.samaritans.org and telephone (UK): 116.123 —————————————————————— Please contact Naama at INCEL with any comments, inquiries, or just random thoughts: e: theincelproject@gmail.com

11 Nov 20221h 11min