JSJ 275: Zones in Node with Austin McDaniel

JSJ 275: Zones in Node with Austin McDaniel

JSJ 275: Zones in Node with Austin McDanielThe panel for this week on JavaScript Jabber is Cory House, Aimee Knight, and Charles Max Wood. They speak with special guest Austin McDaniel about Zones in Node. Tune in to learn more about this topic![00:01:11] Introduction to Austin Austin has worked in JavaScript for the past ten years. He currently works in Angular development and is a panelist on Angular Air. He has spent most of his career doing work in front-end development but has recently begun working with back-end development. With his move to back-end work he has incorporated front-end ideas with Angular into a back-end concept.[00:02:00] The Way it WorksNodeJS is an event loop. There is no way to scope the context of a call stack. So for example, Austin makes a Node request to a server and wants to track the life cycle of that Node request. Once deep in the scope, or deep in the code, it is not easy to get the unique id. Maybe he wants to get the user from Passport JS. Other languages – Python, Java – have a concept called thread local storage. They can associate context with the thread and throughout the life cycle of that request, he can retrieve that context.There is a TC39 proposal for zones. A zone allows you to do what was just described. They can create new zones and associate data with them. Zones can also associate unique ids for requests and can associate the user so they can see who requested later in the stack. Zones also allow to scope and create a context. And then it allows scoping requests and capturing contacts all the way down.[00:05:40] Zone UsesOne way Zone is being used is to capture stack traces, and associating unique ids with the requests. If there is an error, then Zone can capture a stack request and associate that back to the request that happened. Otherwise, the error would be vague.Zones are a TC39 proposal. Because it is still a proposal people are unsure how they can use it. Zones are not a new concept. Austin first saw Zones being used back when Angular 2 was first conceived. If an event happened and they wanted to isolate a component and create a scope for it, they used Zones to do so. Not a huge fan of how it worked out (quirky). He used the same library that Angular uses in his backend. It is a specific implementation for Node. Monkey patches all of the functions and creates a scope and passes it down to your functions, which does a good job capturing the information.[00:08:40] Is installing the library all you need to get this started?Yes, go to npminstallzone.js and install the library. There is a middler function for kla. To fork the zone, typing zone.current. This takes the Zone you are in and creates a new isolated Zone for that fork. A name can then be created for the Zone so it can be associated back with a call stack and assigned properties. Later, any properties can be retrieved no matter what level you are at.[00:09:50] So did you create the Zone library or did Google?The Google team created the Zone library. It was introduced in 2014 with Angular 2. It is currently used in front-end development.[00:10:12] Is the TC39 proposal based on the Zone library?While Austin has a feeling that the TC39 proposal came out of the Zone library, he cannot say for sure.[00:10:39] What stage is the proposal in right now?Zone is in Stage Zero right now. Zone JS is the most popular version because of its forced adoption to Angular. He recommends people use the Angular version because it is the most tested as it has a high number of people using it for front-end development.[00:11:50] Is there an easy way to copy the information from one thread to another?Yes. The best way would probably be to manually copy the information. Forking it may also work.[00:14:18] Is Stage Zero where someone is still looking to put it in or is it imminent? Austin believes that since it is actually in a stage, it means it is going to happen eventually but could be wrong. He assumes that it is going to be similar to the version that is out now. Aimee read that Stage Zero is the implementation stage where developers are gathering input about the product. Austin says that this basically means, “Implementation may vary. Enter at your own risk.”[00:16:21] If I’m using New Relic, is it using Zone JS under the hood? Austin is unsure but there something like that has to be done if profiling is being used. There has to be a way that you insert yourself in between calls. Zone is doing that while providing context, but probably not using Zone JS. There is a similar implementation to tracing and inserting logging in between all calls and timeouts.[00:17:22] What are the nuances? Why isn’t everybody doing this?Zone is still new in the JavaScript world, meaning everyone has a ton of ideas about what should be done. It can be frustrating to work with Zone in front-end development because it has to be manually learned. But in terms of implementation, only trying to create a context. Austin recommends Zone if people want to create direct contacts. The exception would be 100 lines of Zone traces because they can get difficult.Another issue Austin has is Node’s native basic weight. Weight hooks are still up in the air. The team is currently waiting on the Node JS community to provide additional information so that they can finish. Context can get lost sometimes if the wrong language is used. He is using Typescript and doesn’t have that problem because it is straightforward.[00:21:44:] Does this affect your ability to test your software at all?No, there have not been any issues with testing. One thing to accommodate for is if you are expecting certain contexts to be present you have to mock for those in the tests. After that happens, the tests should have no problems.PicksCory: Aimee:​ Charles: Austin:LinksSpecial Guest: Austin McDaniel.

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Episoder(734)

The Comeback of RPC: SolidJS, TanStack, and the Future of JavaScript Frameworks with Ryan Carniato & Tanner Linsley - JSJ 691

The Comeback of RPC: SolidJS, TanStack, and the Future of JavaScript Frameworks with Ryan Carniato & Tanner Linsley - JSJ 691

In this episode of JavaScript Jabber, I sit down with Ryan Carniato, creator of SolidJS, and Tanner Linsley, the force behind TanStack, for a deep-dive conversation on the resurgence of Remote Procedure Calls (RPC) in modern web development. We explore why RPC is making a comeback, how frameworks like Solid, TanStack, and others are shaping the way we think about data fetching, and the technical innovations that are driving this movement forward.From streaming and serialization to type safety and the future of client-server communication, Ryan and Tanner share their experiences, insights, and the unique challenges they’ve faced building cutting-edge tools for developers. If you’ve been curious about where RPC fits in today’s frameworks—or just love geeking out about performance, signals, and developer experience—this is one episode you won’t want to miss.Links & ResourcesRyan Carniato on SolidJSTanStack (React Query, Router, Table, and more)Sentry – where Ryan is currently workingCreate TanStackSolidJS DiscordRyan CarniatoRyan Carniato is the creator of SolidJS, a high-performance JavaScript framework built on fine-grained reactivity. He’s also a Senior Software Engineer at Sentry, where he explores new approaches to front-end architecture and developer experience. Through his open-source contributions, talks, and in-depth content, Ryan has become a trusted voice in the web development community, helping developers think differently about building fast, reactive applications.Tanner LinsleyTanner Linsley is the founder of TanStack, the home of widely adopted open-source libraries like TanStack Query (formerly React Query), TanStack Router, Table, Virtual, and more. A full-time open-source entrepreneur, Tanner has redefined how developers manage state, caching, and data fetching in modern applications. With a focus on performance, simplicity, and type safety, his tools power some of the most advanced applications on the web today.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

22 Sep 1h 29min

Exploring Vibe Coding and the Future of Product Management with Gunnar Berger - JSJ 690

Exploring Vibe Coding and the Future of Product Management with Gunnar Berger - JSJ 690

In this episode of JavaScript Jabber, I sit down with Amazon product leader Gunnar Berger to dive into the fast-evolving world of vibe coding and how it’s reshaping the relationship between developers and product managers. Gunnar brings a wealth of experience from his years in IT, Citrix, and now Amazon, and shares a unique perspective on how AI tools are changing the way products get built—from idea to prototype.We talk about the shifting role of product managers, how AI is compressing traditional workflows, and what it means for developers, UX designers, and even junior devs entering the industry. From rapid prototyping to AI-assisted documentation, Gunnar opens up about both the opportunities and the challenges this new paradigm introduces. Whether you’re a developer, product manager, or just curious about where AI is taking us, this conversation is packed with insights you won’t want to miss.Links & ResourcesGunnar Berger on LinkedInCloud CodeCursorKiro.devIf you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to rate, review, and follow JavaScript Jabber on your favorite podcast app. And of course—share it with a friend who’d love to learn more about the future of coding and product management!Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

12 Sep 1h 13min

How to Use Web Components, Iframes, and Module Federation for Multi-Framework Apps - JSJ 689

How to Use Web Components, Iframes, and Module Federation for Multi-Framework Apps - JSJ 689

This week on JavaScript Jabber, we dive deep into the challenges and opportunities of mixing and matching frontend frameworks in modern applications. I’m joined by Dan Shapir, Steve Edwards, and our special guest Hadar Geva, CTO and co-founder of Myop.dev. Together, we explore how companies are tackling multi-framework environments, the role of web components and iframes, and why module federation isn’t always as simple as it sounds.We also take a closer look at how AI is changing the way developers and even non-developers generate code, the risks of integrating AI-written components, and strategies for safely managing that code in production. If you’ve ever struggled with legacy frameworks, integrating AI-generated components, or wondered whether web components or local iframes are the better fit—this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss.Links & ResourcesMyop.dev – Hadar’s company, building solutions for mixing and managing micro-frontends.Web Awesome – Web components library mentioned during picks.AG Grid – Heavy-duty data grid solution.TanStack Table – Lightweight table solution by Tanner Linsley.ShadCN UI – Component library for modern React apps.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

2 Sep 1h 17min

Why We’re Building the Front End Wrong (and How to Fix It) - JSJ 688

Why We’re Building the Front End Wrong (and How to Fix It) - JSJ 688

In this episode of JavaScript Jabber, I sit down with Delaney Gilliland to dive into why most of us are building the front end wrong—and what a faster, leaner, and simpler alternative could look like. We explore his background in game development and military applications, which gave him a unique perspective on web performance and real-time data challenges. That perspective ultimately led him to create Datastar, a new framework designed to rethink the way we approach front-end development.We talk about the limitations of SPAs, the promise (and pitfalls) of tools like HTMX and Turbo, and how Datastar builds on web standards to deliver speed, efficiency, and simplicity without the baggage of heavy state management. Whether you’re curious about server-sent events, morphing strategies, or just want to see how front-end development could be done differently, this conversation will get you thinking about the future of the web.Links & ResourcesDatastar official sitehttps://x.com/DelaneyGillilanhttps://github.com/delaneyjBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

28 Aug 46min

Vibe Coding: Building Faster with AI-Powered Development - JSJ 687

Vibe Coding: Building Faster with AI-Powered Development - JSJ 687

In this episode of JavaScript Jabber, we dive deep into the world of vibe coding—what it means, how it works in practice, and why it’s changing the way developers build software. I’m joined by Anthony Campolo, who shares his hands-on experience developing AutoShow, an app that automates podcast show notes, using AI-assisted workflows. We talk about how tools like Claude, ChatGPT, and Gemini accelerate development, the role of rule files, and the balance between automation and manual QA.Along the way, we explore the impact of LLMs on junior vs. senior developers, how companies are adapting AI-driven coding practices, and whether the future of software development still requires humans in the loop. This conversation blends real-world coding insights, practical tools, and some big-picture questions about where AI is taking the industry.Check out Anthony Campolo here.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

22 Aug 1h 11min

The Next Wave of Dev Tools: AI Assistants and JavaScript Workflows - JSJ 686

The Next Wave of Dev Tools: AI Assistants and JavaScript Workflows - JSJ 686

In this episode of JavaScript Jabber, we sit down with Vinicius Dallacqua, a seasoned software engineer with a passion for performance and developer tooling. Vinicius shares his journey from coding in central Brazil with limited connectivity to building cutting-edge tools like PerfLab and PerfAgent. We dive into the intersection of AI and DevTools, exploring how artificial intelligence is transforming performance debugging, web development workflows, and even the future of browsers.We also tackle the big questions: How do developers avoid bias when building in high-performance environments? What role will agentic browsers play in the evolution of the web? And how can AI-powered DevTools lower the barrier for developers intimidated by performance profiling? If you’re curious about the future of frontend performance, DevTools, and AI-driven development, this conversation is packed with insights.Links & ResourcesPerfLab – Performance tooling platformPerfAgent – AI-powered DevTools assistantVinicius Dallacqua on X (Twitter)Paul Kinlan’s AI Focus – Essays on AI and the webPerfNow Conference – Leading performance conference in AmsterdamBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

14 Aug 1h 6min

Inside VueConf: Nuxt 4, AI in Development, and the Future of Vue with Erik Hanchett - JSJ 685

Inside VueConf: Nuxt 4, AI in Development, and the Future of Vue with Erik Hanchett - JSJ 685

In this episode of JavaScript Jabber, we welcome back Erik Hanchett, Senior Developer Advocate at AWS, to dive into his experience at VueConf. From the energy of the Vue community to lightning talks on AI and Nuxt updates, Erik shares his insights on where Vue is heading and why in-person conferences are still so valuable for developers. We also explore the balance between “vibe coding” and spec-driven development, plus Erik introduces us to Amazon Q CLI and its powerful MCP integrations for smarter AI-assisted coding.Along the way, we discuss the evolving state of Vue, the rise of Nuxt 4, Evan You’s projects (including Vite and RollDown), and how Amplify is simplifying full-stack app development on AWS. Whether you’re a Vue developer, curious about AI in frontend workflows, or just want to catch up on what’s happening in the broader JavaScript ecosystem, this episode is packed with insights you won’t want to miss.🔗 Links & ResourcesAmazon Q Developer CLI on GitHubAWS Amplify DocumentationCommit Your Code ConferenceErik Hanchett on X (Twitter)Program With Erik YouTube ChannelBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

8 Aug 58min

Running Doom in TypeScript’s Type System with Dimitri Mitropoulos - JSJ 684

Running Doom in TypeScript’s Type System with Dimitri Mitropoulos - JSJ 684

What if I told you someone managed to run Doom inside TypeScript’s type system? Sounds insane, right? That’s exactly what our guest Dimitri Mitropoulos did—and in this episode, we dive deep into the how, the why, and the mind-bending implications of this ambitious project. From type-level programming to the philosophical limits of Turing completeness, this is an episode that pushes the boundaries of what you thought was possible in JavaScript.We talk about how the TypeScript type system evolved to become Turing-complete, how Dimitri pulled off this seemingly impossible feat, and why “Doom-complete” might just be the new gold standard for computational capability. Along the way, we touch on functional programming, generics, recursion, and even some Lambda Calculus. It’s part computer science theory, part coding madness, and 100% geeky goodness.Episode Highlights[3:05] – Dimitri explains how a simple thought experiment turned into a year-and-a-half-long obsession[8:40] – The origins and significance of Turing completeness in type systems[14:15] – Why running Doom in TypeScript is more about proving limits than just showing off[19:55] – What it means to run programs inside the type system vs. TypeScript code itself[27:10] – ASCII art as output, functional recursion for game state, and hover-over frames in your editor[35:30] – How ignorance, determination, and obsession fueled the completion of the project[45:20] – Personal insights: balancing family, burnout, and passion while chasing an impossible dreamLinks & ResourcesDimitri MitropoulosMichigan TypeScript YouTube Channel – Dimitri's channel featuring the projectType Challenges by Anthony Fu – Advanced TypeScript exercisesSquiggleConf – The TypeScript-focused conference Dimitri co-foundedJosh Goldberg – TypeScript expert and co-organizer of SquiggleConfBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

1 Aug 1h 18min

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