Let Them Eat Meat: There is Nothing Wrong With Rearing and Killing Animals for Human Consumption

For this week's Sunday Debate, we're dipping back into the archive to 2014, when we gathered a panel of expert historians to debate whether Britain was right to fight in the First World War, a tragedy that laid the foundations for decades of destructive upheaval and violence across Europe. To debate the issue, we invited leading historians Margaret MacMillan, Max Hastings, John Charmley and Dominic Sandbrook to an event hosted by journalist, columnist and national security expert, Edward Lucas.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

27 Apr 1h 33min

Understanding how the diversity of life on earth came to be is one of the greatest puzzles in biology. In his new book, The Tree of Life: Solving Science's Greatest Puzzle, Professor Max Telford charts a four-billion-year journey through the evolution of our planet, from humans, fish and butterflies to oak trees, mushrooms and bacteria. On today’s episode, Professor Telford sheds light on an epic history of the family tree that records the relationships between every living thing - from Darwin’s early sketches to the vast computer generated diagrams scientists are building today, this is an epic history of the gigantic  Professor Max Telford is an evolutionary biologist and the Jodrell Chair of Zoology and Comparative Anatomy at University College London, where he founded the Centre for Life's Origins and Evolution and the Telford Lab.  Joining Telford to discuss the book is Güneş Taylor, Fellow at the Centre for Reproductive Health and science communicator. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

24 Apr 35min

What do we owe to the dead? What responsibilities do we inherit from the past, and how do they intersect with the crises of the present? In an era of ecological collapse and cultural dislocation, how can we meaningfully honour ancestral memory when the material sites of remembrance - tombs, villages, traditions - are themselves vanishing? In this episode, sociologist and author Alice Mah joins us to discuss her new book, Red Pockets, a deeply personal yet globally resonant exploration of ancestry, ecological anxiety, and cultural memory. Mah is a writer and Professor of Urban and Environmental Studies at the University of Glasgow. Originally from a small town in northern British Columbia, she has a long-standing interest in ecology and place. Drawing on her experiences tracing her family’s lineage from the rice-growing villages of South China, through the Chinatowns of Western Canada where she was raised, to the post-industrial landscapes of Scotland and England where she now lives, Mah reflects on what it means to reckon with a legacy of silence, displacement, and environmental degradation. As Qingming Festival tomb-sweeping traditions fade and wildfires rage across ancestral lands, Mah’s meditation on the “hungry ghosts” of forgotten obligations is both an intimate memoir and a cultural history of rupture.  Joining Mah to discuss environmental sociology, intergenerational responsibility, and the often overlooked spiritual dimensions of ecological grief, is journalist and book critic Mythili Rao. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

23 Apr 39min

What if a single ancient language lay at the root of nearly half of the world’s spoken tongues? In today’s episode, acclaimed science writer and journalist Laura Spinney joins us to discuss her new book Proto: How One Ancient Language Went Global. In Proto, Spinney takes us deep into the mystery of Proto-Indo-European (PIE) - a prehistoric language that no one alive has heard, yet whose echoes can still be found in words spoken from Ireland to India. From the English word star, to Icelandic stjarna, to the Iranic stare - Spinney reveals how echoes of a prehistoric language still ripple across continents and centuries. Along the way, she meets the archaeologists, linguists, and geneticists working to uncover the origins of this linguistic Big Bang - and what it tells us about human history, identity, and movement. Joining Spinney in discussion is global historian Caroline Dodds Pennock, to retrace the paths of nomads, monks, warriors, and kings across the Eurasian steppe, the Caucasus, the Silk Roads, and beyond.  If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

21 Apr 42min

Jane Austen created the definitive picture of Georgian England. No writer matches Austen’s sensitive ear for the hypocrisy and irony lurking beneath the genteel conversation. That’s the argument of the Janeites, but to the aficionados of Emily Brontë they are the misguided worshippers of a circumscribed mind. In Wuthering Heights, Brontë dispensed with Austen’s niceties and the upper-middle class drawing rooms of Bath and the home counties. Her backdrop is the savage Yorkshire moors, her subject the all-consuming passions of the heart. To help you decide who should be crowned queen of English letters we have the lined up the best advocates to make the case for each writer. In this event, chaired by author and critic Erica Wagner, we invited guests including author Kate Mosse, Professor and author John Mullan, and actors Mariah Gale, Samuel West and Dominic West, to discuss each writer's influence. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

20 Apr 1h 35min

Elif Shafak’s award-winning novels are celebrated globally. Her work has been translated into 58 languages, and her latest, There Are Rivers in the Sky, is a testament to the power of storytelling across borders and cultures. This is an epic story of interconnection. Spanning ancient Mesopotamia to contemporary London, Shafak charts the lifespan of a raindrop, as it is consumed, subsumed and transformed across continents and centuries. This sweeping narrative is anchored by the lives of three characters, all of whom live on the banks of the Thames or the Tigris. Their lives are all touched by the Epic of Gilgamesh, a poem written during the late second millennium BC. In April 2025 Shafak was be joined by historian Peter Frankopan on the Intelligence Squared stage. In his acclaimed The Earth Transformed, Frankopan explores how the natural environment has shaped the development and demise of civilisations across time. Here he joined Shafak to shed light on the history of ancient Mesopotamia and the weaving of epic narratives across time and place. ------ If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

18 Apr 52min

What if the biggest threat to liberal democracy isn’t authoritarianism - but our failure to build? On today’s episode we’re joined by journalist Derek Thompson to unpack Abundance, a new vision of progressive politics co-authored by Thompson and Ezra Klein.  In it, Klein and Thompson trace the political, economic, and cultural barriers to progress and propose a path toward a politics of abundance.  Derek Thompson is a staff writer at The Atlantic, host of the Plain English podcast, and the author of the international bestseller Hit Makers. Carl Miller, writer and fellow at Demos, joins Thompson to discuss the book, and everything from housing policy to the failures of de-growth. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

16 Apr 46min

On today’s episode: the untold history of Russia’s deep cover spy programme. Shaun Walker is an international correspondent for The Guardian. He reported from Moscow for more than a decade, and his coverage of Russia's war in Ukraine was shortlisted for the Foreign Reporter of the Year category at the British 2023 Press Awards.  In his new book, The Illegals: Russia's Most Audacious Spies and the Plot to Infiltrate the West, Walker explores the untold history of Russia’s deep cover spy programme, following its evolution from the talented “great Illegals” of the 1920s and ’30s up to the 21st century, when agents maintained their fake identities and loyalties even after the fall of the Soviet Union. These deep-cover missions - some remarkable feats of espionage, others high-profile failures - could last for decades. Walker shines new light on the long arc of the Soviet experiment and its messy aftermath - and how that hidden history shaped Russia and the West. Joining him to discuss the book is Carl Miller, the journalist, co-founder of the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media at Demos, and host of crime podcast Kill List. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

13 Apr 50min