Let Them Eat Meat: There is Nothing Wrong With Rearing and Killing Animals for Human Consumption

Let Them Eat Meat: There is Nothing Wrong With Rearing and Killing Animals for Human Consumption

This event took place on the 31st of October at the Royal Institution in London. CHAIR: Afua Hirsch - Writer and broadcaster SPEAKERS FOR THE MOTION: AA Gill - The Sunday Times’s star restaurant and TV critic AGAINST THE MOTION: George Monbiot - Guardian columnist, environmental campaigner and author of Regenesis: Feeding the World without Devouring the Planet Fancy a nice juicy steak? Most of us do from time to time, and we don’t trouble our consciences too much with the rights and wrongs of eating meat. Others, while vaguely aware that we ought to go vegan, just can’t face the rest of our lives denying ourselves bacon, beef, butter etc. But once we start looking into the arguments for veganism, it becomes difficult to justify the omnivore diet. Take the environment for starters. Livestock farming has a massive impact on the planet, producing around 14% of carbon dioxide equivalent emissions according to the UN. That’s roughly the same as the total amount of global transport emissions. Animals are extremely inefficient processors of the maize and soya that farmers grow to feed them. If we ate those crops ourselves instead of feeding them to livestock, we could free up hundreds of millions of hectares of rainforests, savannahs and wetlands where wild animals could flourish instead. And then there are the arguments about animal welfare. Recent scientific research indicates what many of us feel we already know – that animals have complex emotional lives not dissimilar to our own. Intensive farming – the kind that confines hens, pigs and cattle to squalid indoor pens – thwarts their instincts to move around freely and build social bonds with their group. Tens of billions of animals exist in this way, and that’s before their short lives are ended in the horror house of the abattoir. As for those who say a vegan diet isn’t healthy, elite athletes who have made the switch, including world tennis No 1 Novak Djokovic, prove you don’t need animal protein to excel at the highest levels in sport. On the other side of the argument we developed as omnivores and every human culture has its culinary traditions, based on the taste and aesthetics of meat and dairy. Do we really want to live in a world where there is no beef Wellington or cheese soufflé? As for the environmentalist arguments, omnivores now have some serious eco-credentials behind them. A study at Cornell University shows that a diet that includes a few small portions of grass-fed meat a week may actually be greener than eating no animal products at all. And when it comes to animal welfare, rather than abandoning animal products altogether, couldn’t we do more good by pressing for genuinely transparent labelling of our meat and dairy? If consumers really know what they are getting, fewer people might be willing to buy the £3 chicken produced in the barbaric conditions of the agricultural industry. As for a vegan diet being healthier, we should stop giving airtime to self-appointed health experts and lifestyle bloggers. Some dieticians argue that there are nutrients we need that we just can’t get from plants alone. Yes, we can get calcium from kale and iron from beans, but the quantity, quality and bio-availability of such elements are far better when we get them from animal rather than plant sources. — We’d love to hear your feedback and what you think we should talk about next, who we should have on and what our future debates should be. Send us an email or voice note with your thoughts to podcasts@intelligencesquared.com or Tweet us @intelligence2. And if you’d like to support our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations, as well as ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content, early access and much more, become a supporter of Intelligence Squared today. Just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Episoder(1499)

Rory Stewart on Trump, Nationalism and The Value of Rural Life (Part Two)

Rory Stewart on Trump, Nationalism and The Value of Rural Life (Part Two)

Over the course of a decade in politics Rory Stewart saw how power really works and what forces drive our communities apart. He was a backbench MP, held several ministerial positions, and stood for prime minister – before being sacked from a Conservative Party that he had come to barely recognise. Now, well away from the political arena, he regularly shares his insights into current affairs and global politics as co-host of the UK’s leading political podcast, The Rest Is Politics. In October he came to Intelligence Squared to discuss the state of Britain and the world today. He drew from his new book 'Middleland: Dispatches from the Borders' to discuss his decade as MP of one of Britain’s most rural constituencies, Penrith and The Border. And he argued that to truly create a better future for all we must understand the tensions that exist between rural and urban, between farming and the natural world, between the need to preserve and to grow, and between local and national politics. Bridges must – and can – be built, he argued. The event was hosted by former MP and author Caroline Lucas. You can find out more about her book Another England: Reclaiming Our National Story here: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/453710/another-england-by-lucas-caroline/9781804941591 --- If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

12 Des 202534min

Rory Stewart on Trump, Nationalism and The Value of Rural Life (Part One)

Rory Stewart on Trump, Nationalism and The Value of Rural Life (Part One)

Over the course of a decade in politics Rory Stewart saw how power really works and what forces drive our communities apart. He was a backbench MP, held several ministerial positions, and stood for prime minister – before being sacked from a Conservative Party that he had come to barely recognise. Now, well away from the political arena, he regularly shares his insights into current affairs and global politics as co-host of the UK’s leading political podcast, The Rest Is Politics. In October he came to Intelligence Squared to discuss the state of Britain and the world today. He drew from his new book 'Middleland: Dispatches from the Borders' to discuss his decade as MP of one of Britain’s most rural constituencies, Penrith and The Border. And he argued that to truly create a better future for all we must understand the tensions that exist between rural and urban, between farming and the natural world, between the need to preserve and to grow, and between local and national politics. Bridges must – and can – be built, he argued. The event was hosted by former MP and author Caroline Lucas. You can find out more about her book Another England: Reclaiming Our National Story here: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/453710/another-england-by-lucas-caroline/9781804941591 --- This is the first instalment of a two-part episode. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

10 Des 202535min

Is Alex Karp the Philosopher of Silicon Valley? With Michael Steinberger

Is Alex Karp the Philosopher of Silicon Valley? With Michael Steinberger

Who does our data belong to? In this episode, Carl Miller speaks to NYT magazine journalist and author Michael Steinberger about Alex Karp, Palantir and the rise of the surveillance state. Founded in 2003, Palantir is widely regarded as the most interesting company in Silicon Valley – as well as its most controversial. It aided the US government in the war on terrorism and is now used by the CIA, the NHS, the US military and corporate giants like Airbus and BP. But its billionaire CEO, Alex Karp, is not like the other CEOs. In The Philosopher in the Valley, Michael Steinberger, who had unprecedented access to Karp during the writing of this biography, offers a detailed account of Karp’s singular approach to leadership and how he is preparing Palantir, and the world, for a future dominated by technological power.  Michael Steinberger is a longtime journalist who writes primarily for The New York Times Magazine. He has written cover stories for the magazine about Joe Biden, George Soros, and Roger Federer. Before becoming a journalist, Steinberger spent several years working on Wall Street. He is the author of Au Revoir to All That: Food, Wine, and the End of France and The Wine Savant: A Guide to the New Wine Culture.  If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

8 Des 202551min

The Courage to Lead, with Sanna Marin, Former Prime Minister of Finland (Part Two)

The Courage to Lead, with Sanna Marin, Former Prime Minister of Finland (Part Two)

Sanna Marin is a trailblazer in modern politics. When she became Prime Minister of Finland in 2019, she made history: at 34 she was the youngest ever leader of her country and the youngest leader in the world at the time.  As Prime Minister she confronted significant challenges. She led Finland through the COVID-19 pandemic, helped the country navigate neighbouring Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and led Finland’s rapid joining of NATO – the swiftest entry for any country in the alliance’s history. In November 2025, she joined us live to discuss her new book, Hope in Action. She talked about the political challenges facing Europe and the world today, how she coped with her personal life becoming public, including the incident that sparked a media frenzy and prompted women, including Hillary Clinton and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, to express their support. And she explored how we can all develop the courage to lead and act for the change we want to see in the world. --- If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

7 Des 202535min

The Courage to Lead, with Sanna Marin, Former Prime Minister of Finland (Part One)

The Courage to Lead, with Sanna Marin, Former Prime Minister of Finland (Part One)

Sanna Marin is a trailblazer in modern politics. When she became Prime Minister of Finland in 2019, she made history: at 34 she was the youngest ever leader of her country and the youngest leader in the world at the time.  As Prime Minister she confronted significant challenges. She led Finland through the COVID-19 pandemic, helped the country navigate neighbouring Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and led Finland’s rapid joining of NATO – the swiftest entry for any country in the alliance’s history. In November 2025, she joined us live to discuss her new book, Hope in Action. She talked about the political challenges facing Europe and the world today, how she coped with her personal life becoming public, including the incident that sparked a media frenzy and prompted women, including Hillary Clinton and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, to express their support. And she explored how we can all develop the courage to lead and act for the change we want to see in the world. --- This is the first instalment of a two-part episode. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

5 Des 202534min

Trump, Markets and The Greatest Crash in U.S. History, with Andrew Ross Sorkin (Part Two)

Trump, Markets and The Greatest Crash in U.S. History, with Andrew Ross Sorkin (Part Two)

In 1929, the world watched in shock as the unstoppable Wall Street bull market went into a freefall, wiping out fortunes and igniting a depression that would reshape a generation. In November 2025, Andrew Ross Sorkin, acclaimed New York Times columnist and author, came to Intelligence Squared to reveal the lessons of the 1929 financial crash and how that era of political instability and market turmoil eerily mirrors today. Drawing from his new book 1929, he set out a blueprint for understanding the cycles of speculation, regulatory missteps and warning signs of economic crash that we choose to ignore at our own peril. --- If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

3 Des 202537min

Trump, Markets and The Greatest Crash in U.S. History, with Andrew Ross Sorkin (Part One)

Trump, Markets and The Greatest Crash in U.S. History, with Andrew Ross Sorkin (Part One)

In 1929, the world watched in shock as the unstoppable Wall Street bull market went into a freefall, wiping out fortunes and igniting a depression that would reshape a generation. In November 2025, Andrew Ross Sorkin, acclaimed New York Times columnist and author, came to Intelligence Squared to reveal the lessons of the 1929 financial crash and how that era of political instability and market turmoil eerily mirrors today. Drawing from his new book 1929, he set out a blueprint for understanding the cycles of speculation, regulatory missteps and warning signs of economic crash that we choose to ignore at our own peril. --- This is the first instalment of a two-part episode. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

1 Des 202538min

The Specialist | Virgil Abloh’s Reimagining of the Iconic Nike Air Force 1 for Louis Vuitton, with Brahm Wachter

The Specialist | Virgil Abloh’s Reimagining of the Iconic Nike Air Force 1 for Louis Vuitton, with Brahm Wachter

This is an episode of The Specialist, your weekly dose of wonder. In The Specialist, explore the significance and journey of an extraordinary work through the eyes of those that know it best. On today’s episode, an auction built overnight - Virgil Abloh’s reimagining of the iconic Nike Air Force 1 for Louis Vuitton. The auction became a global phenomenon, with two hundred pairs sold exclusively through Sotheby’s, attracting bidders from more than 50 countries. Brahm Wachter, Sotheby's Head of Modern Collectibles based in Los Angeles, orchestrated the sale. Further details about the episode subject. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

29 Nov 202514min

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